Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
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25-11-2012, 04:27 PM
Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
Several times it has been said in this forum that religious indoctrination is tantamount to child abuse, that circumcision is abuse, and so on.

Now, I do think that those are both abusive behaviors, but you might disagree.

What are the rights of parents concerning their children? What are the limits?
I don't think anyone in a civilized society believes that children should be stoned to death for any reason.
Any society that condones so-called 'honor killing' of teenage girls is not a civilized society.

Do parents have the right to home-school their children and feed them utter nonsense?
Do parents have the right to bring up their children in some 19th century bubble?

There are many more questions, but I just thought I'd get things rolling.

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25-11-2012, 04:36 PM
RE: Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
Legal right - yes.
Moral right - no.
Unfortunately, the idea that our worldview may not be the only valid one (or even the sanest one) is difficult to grasp, so chances are, if you're deluded enough to think that you know the one and only truth, you would be incapable of realising that instead of helping those whom you most love (your kids), you're stunting their intellectual growth, possibly - irreversibly so.

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25-11-2012, 04:43 PM
RE: Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
As Vera said, parents have the legal right to do whatever they wish, depending on where they live. My parents can do practically anything so long as it is not tantamount to physical or mental abuse. Those conditions are often decided by the plaintiff in the legal system anyway.

Parents should not have the right to fill children's heads with bullshit, but the fact of the matter is nobody can legally stop them, at least over here they can't.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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25-11-2012, 04:46 PM
RE: Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
I agree with you Vera. I don't think we should take away a legal right to home school but I also think that the limited view that some teach their kids is immoral.
I do think there needs to be some sort of standard in terms of what kids learn in school, and that is the case in some states. My older daughter is schooled at home, but is in an accredited secular internet program, so is not technically "home schooled" in that we do not use a curriculum that we put together. We do have contact with some other home schooling families, and I do have a problem with what some of those kids are taught. Many states have yearly standardized exams that kids need to take when being home schooled.

Much of the same objections I have to these homeschooling families can be applied to many private schools too. In many states, there are virtually no standards for learning in private schools.

And don't forget, public school is not always better. In many areas, science teachers are either afraid or unwilling to teach evolution, for example. I majored in evolutionary biology, so the idea of learning science without a good understanding of evolution is totally foreign to me.
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25-11-2012, 10:45 PM
RE: Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
Religion is just a product of violence, it seems that you are chasing a ghost. All of the world's ailments come from abusive parenting, all dictators have had terrible, brutal childhood experiences not to mention the near 100% agreement in neuro/psychological circles. Violence is like a plague, it spreads from person to person as those that breed and have children of their own are highly likely to raise them in a similar fashion. If you stop violence and emotional trauma during the developing stages of someone's brain, then you cut the head off the snake for good, and things like religion stay in the history books.
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25-11-2012, 11:50 PM (This post was last modified: 26-11-2012 04:50 PM by Free Thought.)
RE: Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
I disagree with your assertion that religion is a product of violence.

I submit to you the religion is in fact, a progenitor to violence. It is not the sole cause of course, but throughout history a significant portion of violence can be attributed to it.

I also disagree that if you get rid of violence, religion will disappear.

It will never disappear. Religion will simply fade into redundancy, eventually we may reach the point where it sits, neglected in the background, but it will never truly go away.


But that's just my 5 cents.

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26-11-2012, 01:07 AM
RE: Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
Telling parents how they should raise their children?

Pass.

No matter how fucked up some ways of parenting are, it's what makes us human. Differences.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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26-11-2012, 01:11 AM
RE: Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
Muffs, I had you figured for a guy who'd at least comment on parents who keep their children on leashes.



... by the way, is it bad is I make a remark under my breath about a woman toting a child around on a leash?

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26-11-2012, 10:34 AM
RE: Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
(25-11-2012 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  Several times it has been said in this forum that religious indoctrination is tantamount to child abuse, that circumcision is abuse, and so on.

Now, I do think that those are both abusive behaviors, but you might disagree.

What are the rights of parents concerning their children? What are the limits?
I don't think anyone in a civilized society believes that children should be stoned to death for any reason.
Any society that condones so-called 'honor killing' of teenage girls is not a civilized society.

Do parents have the right to home-school their children and feed them utter nonsense?
Do parents have the right to bring up their children in some 19th century bubble?

There are many more questions, but I just thought I'd get things rolling.


Geez, this is going to get ugly Drinking Beverage

I do not think parents should be allowed to keep their children from medical care no matter what crazy religion they practice. To me that is abuse and should result in muderer charges if the child dies. Whenever this comes up you hear the usual suspects (that was a great movie by the way) tell us we must respect the parents religion...erm, no, no we do not.

No honor killings or reprisals for whatever mental/religious/moral lapse you think occurred. Women are people and not chattel, get over that fact and move on. If you can't take part in society without your patriarchal crap, I'm sorry you get to crawl back under the rock from whence you came.

Unfortunately they have the legal right to home school their children. They do have to meet some standards in most states. They should be banned from teaching their religious view points and their children forced to take state administered tests to get their diploma type thingy. Keep your bigotry, hatred and delusions for Sunday school.

Your last point is more difficult to handle. Do you have the legal "right" to keep your children in a bubble? Yes, you do. Are you doing them a disservice by doing so? Absolutely. How legally hande this point will require more thought on my part as it isn't viloent, keeping them from healthcare or granting a piece of paper recognized by the state as having obtained so level of knowledge.

Sorry O Terse One, I am sure you could have said all this in a sentence or less Weeping

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
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26-11-2012, 11:16 AM
RE: Parents' rights (Can o' worms)
Personally I would likely alternate - one year in public school, one at home. That way I could provide alternate views on any possible crap tought, while still getting the kid socialized.

Refusing medical care for your kid should be a crime.

And child abuse enrages me - so does elder abuse and animal abuse.

Raising a child in a bubble should be illegal too. The poor kid won't be able to socialize properly, and depending on what ideas you put in their head, may be a basket case.

I like the new, accredited, public school driven home study programs online. The kids still meet for socialization, the parents can see what is being taught at all times, and achievement standards are being kept. I hear that kids learn a lot better that way, no distractions.

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