Paris attacks
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16-11-2015, 05:14 PM
RE: Paris attacks
(16-11-2015 05:00 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 04:45 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Yeah, one more thing.

The fact that we can not pinpoint what "support" really means, doesn't warrant the attitude that it doesn't mean anything and ignore it.

In fact, if somebody says that they support terrorism , I don't give a flying fuck if he means it in the most benevolent, philosophical, theoretical way or he is thinking about strapping bombs around his waist himself .
That person has no business in my country.

Which country is that? Many countries have historical acts of terrorism anointed and celebrated annually or at least in their history lessons.

Well, first , that is my personal point of view, doesn't reflect my country's position.
Country is Serbia, and yes, there is a street named after Gavrilo Princip , and I think it's retarded as shit and that all who regard him as any kind of a hero are idiots.

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16-11-2015, 05:16 PM
RE: Paris attacks
(16-11-2015 05:14 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 05:00 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Which country is that? Many countries have historical acts of terrorism anointed and celebrated annually or at least in their history lessons.

Well, first , that is my personal point of view, doesn't reflect my country's position.
Country is Serbia, and yes, there is a street named after Gavrilo Princip , and I think it's retarded as shit and that all who regard him as any kind of a hero are idiots.

Isn't that the dude who basically started WWI?

#sigh
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16-11-2015, 05:21 PM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2015 05:32 PM by cjlr.)
RE: Paris attacks
(16-11-2015 04:19 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
Quote:Withholding conclusions given insufficient data is a new, and very odd, definition of naivete.

I think, in this case, common sense is perfectly sufficient to reach the conclusion.

"I don't know, therefore I do, because feels" is nonsense when theists try it, too. It isn't going to work for you either.

What conclusion, for that matter? All I saw was people - including you - recognising the unreliability of what little data exists.

(16-11-2015 04:19 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Btw, some data is in....

23 people arrested in France and 2 in Belgium. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34830233
Is this data sufficient to say they had support ? If yes, do I get brownie points for making a correct conclusion without sufficient data?

Do you mean to say that "the number of people who are violent radicals is greater than zero"? Because, yes, no shit. Was anyone denying that? I don't recall doing so.

What some people think says absolutely nothing about what other people thought or think. Would you not agree that drawing conclusions as to the mindset of third parties based only on the actions of second parties to whom there is no direct connection is, to say the least, a bit of a stretch?

(16-11-2015 04:19 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  If not, what would be sufficient? I am hoping here that "sufficient data" is not some unobtainable mystical thing that exists only for the lack of it to be used as an excuse for not reaching the conclusions we might not like.

'Sufficient' would depend on the claim being made. That's, like, remedial skepticism 101...

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16-11-2015, 05:22 PM
RE: Paris attacks
(16-11-2015 05:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 05:14 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Well, first , that is my personal point of view, doesn't reflect my country's position.
Country is Serbia, and yes, there is a street named after Gavrilo Princip , and I think it's retarded as shit and that all who regard him as any kind of a hero are idiots.

Isn't that the dude who basically started WWI?

Yup. That's the guy.

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16-11-2015, 05:23 PM
RE: Paris attacks
(16-11-2015 05:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 05:14 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Well, first , that is my personal point of view, doesn't reflect my country's position.
Country is Serbia, and yes, there is a street named after Gavrilo Princip , and I think it's retarded as shit and that all who regard him as any kind of a hero are idiots.

Isn't that the dude who basically started WWI?

If you want to be pedantic about it, he's the one that set off the immediate chain of events that caused WWI.

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16-11-2015, 05:26 PM
RE: Paris attacks
(16-11-2015 04:45 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Yeah, one more thing.

The fact that we can not pinpoint what "support" really means, doesn't warrant the attitude that it doesn't mean anything and ignore it.

... Has anyone here espoused that attitude?

I've not seen it.

(16-11-2015 04:45 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  In fact, if somebody says that they support terrorism , I don't give a flying fuck if he means it in the most benevolent, philosophical, theoretical way or he is thinking about strapping bombs around his waist himself .
That person has no business in my country.

Going around asking people, "do you support terrorism? Y/N" isn't exactly how you find out what people believe. And you have to wait until they do something in any case, unless you're proposing thoughtcrime legislation.

What constitutes "doing something" is its own discussion. I don't think I need say criminal acts speak for themselves. But financial or material support to flagged groups and causes? Sure. What about expressing strictly verbal or written support? Well, is it specific or abstract? An emotional one-off, or a regular occurrence? How do you know it was expressed; was the venue public? Private? Telephone? Internet? How much surveillance is then justified? Pre-emptive or reactive? On what standards?

tl;dr - venting is easy. Coherent policy proposals are hard.

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16-11-2015, 05:27 PM
RE: Paris attacks
The hacktivist group Anonymous has declared a cyberwar against ISIS, their goals including but not limited to shutting down propaganda and recruiting sites, and all associated accounts.

Here's to hoping they make good on those threats!

Ignorance is not to be ignored.

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16-11-2015, 05:34 PM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2015 05:44 PM by Banjo.)
RE: Paris attacks
(16-11-2015 05:27 PM)Loom Wrote:  The hacktivist group Anonymous has declared a cyberwar against ISIS, their goals including but not limited to shutting down propaganda and recruiting sites, and all associated accounts.

Here's to hoping they make good on those threats!

Like that one Russian SU 24 shut down that US destroyer then made twelve close passes. All the American captain could respond with was "Is that # 32 on it's tail?"

Lesson learned by Napoleon and Hitler. "DON'T FUCK WITH THE RUSSIANS!" Smile

Crazy sods burned Moscow to the ground to deny it to Napoleon!

[NOTE] There was footage of this and I can no longer find it. Seems to have been taken down.




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16-11-2015, 05:48 PM
RE: Paris attacks
(16-11-2015 05:34 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Lesson learned by Napoleon and Hitler. "DON'T FUCK WITH THE RUSSIANS!" Smile

Sure, but with a thousand years of history to choose from, they've got the same essentially 50/50 record as anyone. They lost to the Lithuanians, Poles, Swedes, Ottomans, Prussians, Germans, and Austrians as often as the other way around.

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16-11-2015, 05:52 PM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2015 05:59 PM by Free Thought.)
RE: Paris attacks
(16-11-2015 05:34 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 05:27 PM)Loom Wrote:  The hacktivist group Anonymous has declared a cyberwar against ISIS, their goals including but not limited to shutting down propaganda and recruiting sites, and all associated accounts.

Here's to hoping they make good on those threats!

Lesson learned by Napoleon and Hitler. "DON'T FUCK WITH THE RUSSIANS!" Smile

I disagree, Banjo.

What Napoleon and Hitler learned was not to avoid pissing off the Russians, but to never ignore General Winter.

They lost ultimately because they failed to take the winter into account, with bled their inadequately prepared forces dry and left them easy marks while the Russians, being accustomed to such conditions and on home turf were able to rebuild and ready up for the next round.
... It didn't help that Hitler had a major mental break from his WWI experiences and refused to allow his men to manoeuvre because he feared losing that way again.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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