Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
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24-09-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(24-09-2013 01:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You're not playing the game friend. What if Islam is correct? Shouldn't you hedge your bets and believe that just in case?

Lets assume you can't ascertain the right one and its silly to try. The question becomes:

By changing my current belief to a random belief, Is my future likely to be better off, worse off, or about the same?

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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24-09-2013, 02:28 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(24-09-2013 01:32 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(24-09-2013 01:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You're not playing the game friend. What if Islam is correct? Shouldn't you hedge your bets and believe that just in case?

Lets assume you can't ascertain the right one and its silly to try. The question becomes:

By changing my current belief to a random belief, Is my future likely to be better off, worse off, or about the same?

Or is it irrelevant since none have proven themselves to be likely. Making the rejection of all of them the most likely if not the only likely position.

Evolve
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24-09-2013, 03:32 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(24-09-2013 01:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I'm going to heaven "regardless".

In Heaven
Everything is fine
In Heaven
Everything is fine
You got your good thing
And you've got mine.




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24-09-2013, 06:33 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
The wager says " if you believe in error you lose nothing". I disagree. If you believe in error, you waste your one and only life devoted to a delusion.

Satan punishes th wicked- doesn't that make him good?
God forgives hypocrites with a rubber " JESUS" stamp- what's so great about that?

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24-09-2013, 09:37 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(24-09-2013 01:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(24-09-2013 11:51 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  One of the things I like to do is still try to convince christians that they will be going to hell, regardless of jesus or not.
"Do you think you can't be judged" ? "Why would you think that" ?

I'm going to heaven "regardless". I have Christ's promise and he would be a liar otherwise. John 3:16 says those who trust shall not perish. If I have eternal life for 20 years then go to Hell, obviously 20 and eternity are inequalities.

Yes, but once again you're using the unverifiable Bible as the basis for this, all the while assuming that the words attributed to Jesus aren't lies. They could be miss-translations, miss-attributed to him, or completely made up; and you have nothing more than your assertion to go on. That's not good evidence or reasoning, but it's PJ, so that's par for the course.



(24-09-2013 01:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:"Do you think you can't be punished for your sins" ?

I'm in the same vein as atheists. Some of what we do here comes back to us. But I won't be in Hell.

Of course you won't, because there is no good reason to think the Christian dogmatic construct of Hell exists (but the same applies to Heaven too).



(24-09-2013 01:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:"Do you believe yourself to be so special that you don't deserve it be held responsible for your crimes against god" ?

I was absolutely held responsible. My substitute took punishment for me.

Hence, not responsible. That is scapegoating, letting others take responsibility for your actions; and Christianity is scapegoating writ large. Even ignoring the nonsense of a 3-in-1 god sacrificing a part of himself to himself to appease himself, the doctrine of cosmic vicarious redemption is immoral at it's core.



(24-09-2013 01:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:"Is that what you believe" ?

I'm not sure what you mean here. I trust Jesus. Belief as in an intellectual fashion is not trust. Trust is a yielding to another.

So you believe in Jesus and trust in him too, no need to pussyfoot around the semantics here. Once again however it must be pointed out that the foundation for your belief and trust is nonexistent, but you fail to see it.



(24-09-2013 01:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:"Jesus may be your bridge into heaven but who is to say that god won't toss you off the bridge into hell"

Jesus said.

The subjective translations of subjective translations of translations of translations, of subjective interpretations of subjectively remembered stories subjectively written down by subjective authors, none of whom were eye witnesses, and all of whom took place decades after the supposed events happened. 'Jesus said' indeed... Drinking Beverage



(24-09-2013 01:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:The safer bet is to NOT believe in any of it at all.
If after your death, your mind attempts to give you what you desire in an afterlife, you may find that your mind will attempt to place you in hell for your sins.

An atheist life is the one for me. My mind will be completely at peace.

"There is no peace for the wicked..."

Once again your air of superiority and condescension is noted; dickwad.

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24-09-2013, 11:17 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
The diagram's missing the "Cthulu" option.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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25-09-2013, 03:50 AM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(24-09-2013 02:28 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(24-09-2013 01:32 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Lets assume you can't ascertain the right one and its silly to try. The question becomes:

By changing my current belief to a random belief, Is my future likely to be better off, worse off, or about the same?

Or is it irrelevant since none have proven themselves to be likely. Making the rejection of all of them the most likely if not the only likely position.

Spoken like a faithful atheist. But atheism hasn't proven itself to be likely either so I'm not going to consider it more likely.

I look at that chart and I see a whole lot of fire on it. It seems to me that if I were a Jehova Witness, my future would be worse off if I changed my beliefs to a random one. I could be wrong (I haven't actually done any calculations) but off the cuff it seems I am better off remaining a Jehova Witness instead of randomly choosing a different belief.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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25-09-2013, 04:03 AM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2013 05:25 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(25-09-2013 03:50 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Spoken like a faithful atheist. But atheism hasn't proven itself to be likely either so I'm not going to consider it more likely.

Null Hypothesis

Quote:In statistical inference of observed data of a scientific experiment, the null hypothesis refers to a general or default position: that there is no relationship between two measured phenomena, or that a potential medical treatment has no effect. Rejecting or disproving the null hypothesis – and thus concluding that there are grounds for believing that there is a relationship between two phenomena or that a potential treatment has a measurable effect – is a central task in the modern practice of science, and gives a precise sense in which a claim is capable of being proven false.

All of the world's religion cannot be true, but they can all be false. Any religion that makes claims on the nature of existence gives themselves the burden of proof. Lacking any such evidence, agnostic atheism is the only rational (and most probable) position to take.

I know this has been explained to you countless time before (so you cannot claim ignorance), thanks for showing us again why you're so deservedly regarded as being disingenuous.

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25-09-2013, 04:32 AM
Re: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
When did I say atheism was a proven position?

What I said was that the absence of a position was more likely given the paucity of evidence for any other position.

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25-09-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
EK:

Quote:Hence, not responsible. That is scapegoating, letting others take responsibility for your actions; and Christianity is scapegoating writ large. Even ignoring the nonsense of a 3-in-1 god sacrificing a part of himself to himself to appease himself, the doctrine of cosmic vicarious redemption is immoral at it's core.

Yes, I got it. Christopher Hitchens was a very intelligent person with interesting ideas. However, someone in prison who is born again does not have their cell doors fly open the next day. Gamblers who become born again don't have their debts paid. The scapegoat/atonement process has to do with the next world. Biblically, all of us are going to Hell without it, so I don't want to "have it your way" to use Burger King's slogan.

All we need to do to soften Hitchens's concept of "disgusting moral shift" is replace "substitutionary atonement" with "a friend helped me do something I couldn't do on my own" which is the golden rule, altruism and many other things Hitchens certainly believed in. You are making a category error, ascribing a payment or transaction or will legacy (Bible terms for salvation and sin's payment) with a abrogation of responsibility.
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