Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
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25-09-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
Witnesses are one blue sky patch from being atheists - one more sign that you can be just as crazy as every other religion while only having the belief of your own of reward in an afterlife while discounting everyone else's.

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25-09-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(25-09-2013 02:06 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(25-09-2013 01:56 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I sought and I found no god.

I didn't grow apathetic until after I had reached the conclusion that I didn't believe in a god.

Stop making assumptions about how I derived my opinions.

Huh? I didn't say how you derived your present opinion. I opined that if one will in the future seek god, god will find them, and that apatheism is pushing away from that seeking.

For all we both know, you are going to find god 20 years from now, and you sought him, will be found by him and the apatheism is delaying your finding and etc. As a Christian, I wouldn't presume your done forever, just closed-minded for now, which is different.

For all we know, aliens will fly into our orbit from a far away galaxy and tell us they are the inspiration for what we call gods but they just have really advanced technology.

Am I close-minded for saying that this is so unlikely to be true that it warrants no serious consideration since there is 0 evidence it is likely in even the remotest sense? No.

I seek an understanding of reality. If any god exists concurrent with that, then it would really matter if I were apathetic or not, it would be inevitable to find it, no?

But it clearly isn't the god of the bible that exists. The bible is a fairy tale and contains no truth about reality.

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25-09-2013, 03:21 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2013 09:54 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(25-09-2013 02:04 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  EK:

Quote:If your god has to protect us from himself, there is something very wrong with your worldview and the things you choose to worship. At the very least, your god is anything but benevolent; which is one of the points I've been driving at since forever.

I'm pleased you mentioned this. God has to protect us from the consequences of sin, not himself. Sin is a force like gravity or electromagnetism with its own rules for conduction, and consequences. Look at it this way:

1. God planned to grant us free will

2. This free will would only be free if we disobeyed

3. This disobedience kills

Your analogy is very close! It's not "god planned to punch us then blocked the punch" it's "god gave us car keys, and air bags". So close. My analogy works if you would admit that humans have absolute or practical free will.


I've told you this before, and I'll tell you this again.

EVIDENCE OR GTFO!

Make all the assertions you want, make them until you are blue in the face. But until you have some evidence, there is no reason to believe that 'sin' is anything more than a concept, a construct used by Christians to convince others they need the cure they're selling. And without 'sin', your entire rational falls apart.


You've built your house of beliefs on a foundation of quicksand and yet can't seem to comprehend why it's sinking into the ground...


There is every reason to think that we don't have 'absolute and practical freewill', as has been explored in the other thread here on Freewill. Even the most tenacious supporters of 'freewill' couldn't get it to 'absolute freewill', and showed that their defense essentially amounted to defending something I would call 'limited will' at best. If you cannot control what your brain will do next, or your soul, then you do not have absolute freewill; thus making your entire (merely asserted) moral framework once again capricious, arbitrary, cruel, and unjust.

Nice try, I award you no points.

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25-09-2013, 03:33 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
i wish.. that.. . you know.. people would stop trying to assert that god exists when the best that they can offer up is faith; in other words people mistake the hope that something is real for it being real. Just because I hope I'm rich doesn't mean I am and I can sure as hell hope that I buttered the correct side, but well you never really know.

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the bread to butter.
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26-09-2013, 05:13 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(25-09-2013 04:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  When did I say atheism was a proven position?

What I said was that the absence of a position was more likely given the paucity of evidence for any other position.

We are discussing changing ones belief from something to something else and not the absence of a position. Looking at the chart why should a Jehova Witness even consider changing his belief?

KingsChosen is a lying douchebag
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26-09-2013, 05:54 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(25-09-2013 03:33 PM)Xinoftruden Wrote:  i wish.. that.. . you know.. people would stop trying to assert that god exists when the best that they can offer up is faith; in other words people mistake the hope that something is real for it being real. Just because I hope I'm rich doesn't mean I am and I can sure as hell hope that I buttered the correct side, but well you never really know.

You have people in this thread asserting that its likely God doesn't exist when the best they can offer up is faith in that position.

KingsChosen is a lying douchebag
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26-09-2013, 10:32 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
(26-09-2013 05:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You have people in this thread asserting that its likely God doesn't exist when the best they can offer up is faith in that position.

Thanks for lying again Blowjob, it's really appreciated.

You know damn well that most all of us here are atheists from the complete lack of any evidence to the contrary. Pretending ignorance to lie yet again is doing neither you, nor your supposed god, any favors.

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26-09-2013, 10:56 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition



You can't overlook the lack Jack, of any other highway to ride. It's got no signs or dividing lines, and very few rules to guide - Gerry Garcia
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26-09-2013, 11:01 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
Just to emphasize the point...




You can't overlook the lack Jack, of any other highway to ride. It's got no signs or dividing lines, and very few rules to guide - Gerry Garcia
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27-09-2013, 11:09 AM
Re: Pascal's Wager Expanded Edition
No, we weren't. You might have been trying to say that, but that would involve actually trying to use Pascal's wager as a way to discern fact from fiction or that which is likely from that which is unlikely. And Pascal's wager is inherently flawed from the outset because it isn't about learning fact and omitting fiction, it is about picking a position out of fear.

It quite literally has no means of shifting anyone's position towards the truth in any way (or at the very least, not in a knowable and verifiable way, assuming that one of the fear positions is actually correct).



Atheism is on this because it is inherently the lack of any given position on the board. It doesn't make an inherent claim. It makes no prediction as to what happens after one dies. Some atheists, like myself, certainly do take my opinion further when I claim that certain and specific gods do not exist, like the biblical tyrant known as yahweh. In this case, I am now making the claim that the columns associated with that god, don't matter because they are irrelevant since that God doesn't exist.

This is another reason Pascal's wager fails to swing someone from one position to another, because the 3 big monotheisms of the western world are necessarily mutually exclusive. So, if one of them is true, only one of them should even be considered according to Pascal. But you have no way of discerning one from the other using this wager, because all theistic positions are equal underneath it.

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