Pascal's Wager and Hell
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-06-2013, 02:39 PM
Pascal's Wager and Hell
Just joined the forum, introduced myself. Someone saw the word "agnostic" and just jumped to the conclusion that I agnostic and not an atheist; great example of NOT LISTENING and instead just reacting to buzz words. This "welcome" warned me that "we don't accept Pascal's Insurance".

First of all, it is called "Pascal's Wager (or Gamble)". Also, Pascal's Wager is bunk even if the Christian "God" did exist. According to almost all understanding of Christian denominations, just believing that God exists is not sufficient for salvation from eternal torment in hell.

No, the bible says even the devil believes that God exists. In order to be saved, you not only have to believe that God exists, but you have to also pick the correct denomination and rituals. For example, broad evangelicals are "saved" by placing their trust in Jesus. Once that occurs, they are once and for all "saved". However, Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox teach that salvation is dispensed by sacraments (rituals) which give you a clean slate until the next time that you sin, then you have to hope you don't die while you are in sin (mortal sin, like masterbating or missing a Sunday service).

Then there are variations on the theme with Calvinistic reformed protestants that teach that you have to be one of the "elect" to be saved, so God picks and choses who is saved and who goes to hell. So basically, God creates a mankind knowing that most will go to hell for eternity, but you cannot accuse God of creating evil, because it is mankind who sinned not God. Plus we are just humans and cannot begin to grasp the infinite "wisdom and holiness" of God.

OK, but even if you got all of that right, God could still send you to hell if he wants to. Maybe he gets a kick out of it. Who says that God has to be holy, or righteous, or truthful? If mankind cannot grasp the infinite wisdom and holiness of God, then how can we puny humans have any certainty on how God will act? Myabe God just gets a kick out of sending people to hell. The bible even backs that up. According to the bible, God created mankind for his own pleasure; and since God is totally in control (doctrine of providence) combined with the biblical fact that most people are going to hell, then God must really enjoy sending people to hell.

So the Pascal's Wager is just another way for you to burn!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes comet's post
17-06-2013, 02:46 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager and Hell
(17-06-2013 02:39 PM)comet Wrote:  Just joined the forum, introduced myself. Someone saw the word "agnostic" and just jumped to the conclusion that I agnostic and not an atheist; great example of NOT LISTENING and instead just reacting to buzz words. This "welcome" warned me that "we don't accept Pascal's Insurance".

First of all, it is called "Pascal's Wager (or Gamble)". Also, Pascal's Wager is bunk even if the Christian "God" did exist. According to almost all understanding of Christian denominations, just believing that God exists is not sufficient for salvation from eternal torment in hell.

No, the bible says even the devil believes that God exists. In order to be saved, you not only have to believe that God exists, but you have to also pick the correct denomination and rituals. For example, broad evangelicals are "saved" by placing their trust in Jesus. Once that occurs, they are once and for all "saved". However, Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox teach that salvation is dispensed by sacraments (rituals) which give you a clean slate until the next time that you sin, then you have to hope you don't die while you are in sin (mortal sin, like masterbating or missing a Sunday service).

Then there are variations on the theme with Calvinistic reformed protestants that teach that you have to be one of the "elect" to be saved, so God picks and choses who is saved and who goes to hell. So basically, God creates a mankind knowing that most will go to hell for eternity, but you cannot accuse God of creating evil, because it is mankind who sinned not God. Plus we are just humans and cannot begin to grasp the infinite "wisdom and holiness" of God.

OK, but even if you got all of that right, God could still send you to hell if he wants to. Maybe he gets a kick out of it. Who says that God has to be holy, or righteous, or truthful? If mankind cannot grasp the infinite wisdom and holiness of God, then how can we puny humans have any certainty on how God will act? Myabe God just gets a kick out of sending people to hell. The bible even backs that up. According to the bible, God created mankind for his own pleasure; and since God is totally in control (doctrine of providence) combined with the biblical fact that most people are going to hell, then God must really enjoy sending people to hell.

So the Pascal's Wager is just another way for you to burn!

Hi, yeah it was a joke. Because you said you were taking Atheism for a "test drive" it had nothing to do with you being an agnostic. As for Pascals wager it is the worst apologetic defense and is full of fallacies. It basically says that an all knowing all powerful God is dumb enough to believe you if you simply lie to his face.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-06-2013, 02:54 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager and Hell
(17-06-2013 02:46 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-06-2013 02:39 PM)comet Wrote:  Just joined the forum, introduced myself. Someone saw the word "agnostic" and just jumped to the conclusion that I agnostic and not an atheist; great example of NOT LISTENING and instead just reacting to buzz words. This "welcome" warned me that "we don't accept Pascal's Insurance".

First of all, it is called "Pascal's Wager (or Gamble)". Also, Pascal's Wager is bunk even if the Christian "God" did exist. According to almost all understanding of Christian denominations, just believing that God exists is not sufficient for salvation from eternal torment in hell.

No, the bible says even the devil believes that God exists. In order to be saved, you not only have to believe that God exists, but you have to also pick the correct denomination and rituals. For example, broad evangelicals are "saved" by placing their trust in Jesus. Once that occurs, they are once and for all "saved". However, Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox teach that salvation is dispensed by sacraments (rituals) which give you a clean slate until the next time that you sin, then you have to hope you don't die while you are in sin (mortal sin, like masterbating or missing a Sunday service).

Then there are variations on the theme with Calvinistic reformed protestants that teach that you have to be one of the "elect" to be saved, so God picks and choses who is saved and who goes to hell. So basically, God creates a mankind knowing that most will go to hell for eternity, but you cannot accuse God of creating evil, because it is mankind who sinned not God. Plus we are just humans and cannot begin to grasp the infinite "wisdom and holiness" of God.

OK, but even if you got all of that right, God could still send you to hell if he wants to. Maybe he gets a kick out of it. Who says that God has to be holy, or righteous, or truthful? If mankind cannot grasp the infinite wisdom and holiness of God, then how can we puny humans have any certainty on how God will act? Myabe God just gets a kick out of sending people to hell. The bible even backs that up. According to the bible, God created mankind for his own pleasure; and since God is totally in control (doctrine of providence) combined with the biblical fact that most people are going to hell, then God must really enjoy sending people to hell.

So the Pascal's Wager is just another way for you to burn!

Hi, yeah it was a joke. Because you said you were taking Atheism for a "test drive" it had nothing to do with you being an agnostic. As for Pascals wager it is the worst apologetic defense and is full of fallacies. It basically says that an all knowing all powerful God is dumb enough to believe you if you simply lie to his face.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-06-2013, 03:01 PM
RE: Pascal's Wager and Hell
OK, good. Most of my stuff is veiled humor too, stay tuned. Even this thread can be reduced to: "It is reasonable to argue that the Christian God is going to send everyone to hell". :-)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-06-2013, 03:21 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2013 07:21 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Pascal's Wager and Hell
Unfortunately there is no "biblical fact" that anyone is going to a *place* called "hell".
The Hebrews did not believe in immortality, or a soul. Jesus, (if he even existed) would have been a good Jew, thus he would agree with that. Saul of Tarsus, (the founder of Christianity/Paulianity) taught that only the "saved" were immortal. The whole idea of "hell" (as a "place") is extra-biblical, and cooked up, and developed later, AFTER the salvation paradigm (of Paul) had become entrenched. Jebus never said "do thus and so, or you will go to hell'. He told the young man to "keep the commandments". He also said, "No one shall come to me unless the Father draw him", and "Many are called, but few are *chosen*". That means not everyone is chosen. He never said those that weren't go to hell. The whole discussion is childish nonsense. The devil, and hell as a place of torture developed in human ideas, and is traceable, (as Dr. Elaine Pagels form Princeton did in her "The Origins of Satan"). Not only is Pascal's Wager nonsense, it's not even worth the time or energy to consider it, or talk about it in the context of a "hell" which everyone knows was just a made-up threat, based on the constantly burning trash dump, outside Jerusalem, where the animal carcasses were burned, called *Gehenna*, (or the Valley of Gehinon).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: