Pascal's wager answered
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26-06-2017, 05:00 PM
RE: Pascal's wager answered
(26-06-2017 02:59 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(26-06-2017 06:14 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Sorry, but you just said they should fake belief until it became actual belief.

Yes, that's Pascal's suggested way to become a believer.

(26-06-2017 06:12 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  That is still trying to fool god. If god is not a moron he has a memory. He will remember how you came to your belief.

Whats the difference between those who honestly cant believe in him, and those who dishonestly start to believe in him? It is certainly not the belief, but the intent. So (given that god does exist), he either values my atheist´ intellectual honesty, or he loves to get his ass licked in dishonesty, in which case he can kiss mine in return.

I don't think it's meant to imply that you are fooling god or that it is dishonest. The idea is that as long as you honestly believe when you die you get the goodies no matter how you came to the belief.

I didn't say any of it made sense; I was just noting that Pascal didn't suggest that you try to trick god, he suggested that you try to trick yourself.

Of course many apologists\believers will also assert that perfection is not just a trait of this god, but it is actually part of this god's nature, god=perfection.

So where would god's alleged perfect nature come in when it applies to faith? Wouldn't a perfect god demand a perfect faith? Naah! God is love, Jesus, etc. etc. grain of a mustard seed and all that.

God cares nothing for perfection as long as you are swimming in a pool of Jesus blood.

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Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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26-06-2017, 05:07 PM
RE: Pascal's wager answered
(26-06-2017 10:20 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Skepticism is a philosophy and a tool. Pragmatism is a philosophy and a tool. Rationalism is a philosophy and a tool. Empiricism is a philosophy and a tool. Naturalism is a philosophy and a tool. Determinism is a philosophy and a tool. Materialism is a philosophy and a tool. Functionalism is a philosophy and a tool. Hell even asceticism and hedonism are both a philosophy and a tool.

Conservatism is a philosophy and full of tools. Dodgy

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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26-06-2017, 05:09 PM
RE: Pascal's wager answered
Pascal's Wager does encourage people to be dishonest. But then that's required for religion, so it doesn't really change things.
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26-06-2017, 05:11 PM
RE: Pascal's wager answered
(25-06-2017 09:37 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  So I had a discussion with a Christian and they went to the end all be all. Pascal's wager. This gets old, so out of frustration i flipped it. I didn't even think about the words that were coming out of my mouth but it actually worked so let me paraphrase here.

Them: what if you're wrong?
Me: I don't think you understand my position. Even if i knew 100% you're god was real i would rather burn in hell than follow someone so evil here is how he's evil...
Them...
Me: what if your wrong?
Then: then i have lived a moral life and there is nothing after.
Me: and what about the gay guy who killed himself because your religion says being gay is evil. Not only is he not going to hell if your wrong, but he ended his life prematurely because of something your church says. His life is just over and for no reason. Is causing someone to kill them self moral?

THis answer fits also the idea that mankind is such a wonderful construct that humanity had to have had a creator- God made man in 6 days ad too the week end off.
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26-06-2017, 08:01 PM
RE: Pascal's wager answered
Personally, I stopped debating this so-called "wager" with anybody and everybody years ago. It has no relevance in any 21st-century debate, as it's nothing more than a philosophical, theist red herring.

It has no more substance than the smug people who say to me that I'll never win the lottery if I don't buy a ticket (and which I never do anyway) —it's a mug's game, and they've unwittingly been sucked in. Just like Pascal and the theists.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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26-06-2017, 08:17 PM
RE: Pascal's wager answered
(26-06-2017 08:01 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Personally, I stopped debating this so-called "wager" with anybody and everybody years ago. It has no relevance in any 21st-century debate, as it's nothing more than a philosophical, theist red herring.

It has no more substance than the smug people who say to me that I'll never win the lottery if I don't buy a ticket (and which I never do anyway) —it's a mug's game, and they've unwittingly been sucked in. Just like Pascal and the theists.

"Lottery: a tax on people who are bad at math."

- Ambrose Bierce, author of The Devil's Dictionary

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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