Passing On.
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29-12-2014, 05:30 PM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2014 05:33 PM by Mr Woof.)
Passing On.
The only certainties are said to be death and taxes.
Most atheists see death as extinction, those more
agnostic seeing such as somewhat less probable.

Some in the Christian church c laim that those not holding
Jesus to be God will be tortured eternally, with no reprieve.
Others such as the Seventh Day Adventists see extinction for
the sinners. A somewhat more heartening view than permanent
roasting. The former makes for a really evil god, more like a devil.
Christian process theology tries to teach a working with god in
tandem, which is even less offensive.

Reincarnation teaches of many lives lived by the soul or monad
in different bodies. A learning process, travelling from womb to womb.
At least much experience can be a good teacher, but essentially for what?
Other Eastern views such as Annata (no self) see us simply merging into aspects of the Universe. Not too appealing, but arguably preferable to the Christian options.

Hell is not new. Prior to Christianity Zarathustrianism posited a Hell.
The soul was weighed and an unsatisfactory result saw the body carried
off to Hell by an old hag. The ancient Egyptians made ornate preperations for their dead in readiness for a better place, though there too, was a dark place of misery.

As presumeably finite beings we don't really know what to expect.
While Hellfire seems gross and remote, some form of post
mortem meanderings cannot be totally ruled out, unless we want to.
Is there some form of metaphysical evolution, yet beyond our grasp?
Who knows? Perhaps we should try to imagine such as we engage this
secular world, and not be too pre occupied with finality.


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29-12-2014, 05:34 PM
RE: Passing On.
I know nothing about Annata - I should learn about it.

PS. It's Anatta. Smile

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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29-12-2014, 09:11 PM
RE: Passing On.
(29-12-2014 05:30 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
The only certainties are said to be death and taxes.
Most atheists see death as extinction, those more
agnostic seeing such as somewhat less probable.

Some in the Christian church c laim that those not holding
Jesus to be God will be tortured eternally, with no reprieve.
Others such as the Seventh Day Adventists see extinction for
the sinners. A somewhat more heartening view than permanent
roasting. The former makes for a really evil god, more like a devil.
Christian process theology tries to teach a working with god in
tandem, which is even less offensive.

Reincarnation teaches of many lives lived by the soul or monad
in different bodies. A learning process, travelling from womb to womb.
At least much experience can be a good teacher, but essentially for what?
Other Eastern views such as Annata (no self) see us simply merging into aspects of the Universe. Not too appealing, but arguably preferable to the Christian options.

Hell is not new. Prior to Christianity Zarathustrianism posited a Hell.
The soul was weighed and an unsatisfactory result saw the body carried
off to Hell by an old hag. The ancient Egyptians made ornate preperations for their dead in readiness for a better place, though there too, was a dark place of misery.

As presumeably finite beings we don't really know what to expect.
While Hellfire seems gross and remote, some form of post
mortem meanderings cannot be totally ruled out, unless we want to.
Is there some form of metaphysical evolution, yet beyond our grasp?
Who knows? Perhaps we should try to imagine such as we engage this
secular world, and not be too pre occupied with finality.



Before considering any of that, one would need to demonstrate duality. No one has.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-12-2014, 10:01 AM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2014 10:16 AM by Free.)
RE: Passing On.
(29-12-2014 05:30 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
The only certainties are said to be death and taxes.
Most atheists see death as extinction, those more
agnostic seeing such as somewhat less probable.

Some in the Christian church c laim that those not holding
Jesus to be God will be tortured eternally, with no reprieve.
Others such as the Seventh Day Adventists see extinction for
the sinners. A somewhat more heartening view than permanent
roasting. The former makes for a really evil god, more like a devil.
Christian process theology tries to teach a working with god in
tandem, which is even less offensive.

Reincarnation teaches of many lives lived by the soul or monad
in different bodies. A learning process, travelling from womb to womb.
At least much experience can be a good teacher, but essentially for what?
Other Eastern views such as Annata (no self) see us simply merging into aspects of the Universe. Not too appealing, but arguably preferable to the Christian options.

Hell is not new. Prior to Christianity Zarathustrianism posited a Hell.
The soul was weighed and an unsatisfactory result saw the body carried
off to Hell by an old hag. The ancient Egyptians made ornate preperations for their dead in readiness for a better place, though there too, was a dark place of misery.

As presumeably finite beings we don't really know what to expect.
While Hellfire seems gross and remote, some form of post
mortem meanderings cannot be totally ruled out, unless we want to.
Is there some form of metaphysical evolution, yet beyond our grasp?
Who knows? Perhaps we should try to imagine such as we engage this
secular world, and not be too pre occupied with finality.



I think it is perfectly natural that our inherent fear of the finality of death compels many of us to "hope" that the finality is actually not final.

I'm not sure that i would want any kind of immortality in my current existence. I am a firm believer that nothing has ever been created, and therefore nothing will ever be destroyed. Everything merely changes the shape and form of its existence. All matter and energy are in a constant and eternal state of flux.

Today we live, tomorrow we could be dust in the wind. But because of our natural bias towards life, we value "life" without perhaps understanding that from a completely unbiased perspective life has no greater value than that which is non sentient.

The universe is as indifferent to life as it is to non life. Life has no greater value than the dust in the wind.

All this may sound harsh, but I accept it as a truth, and from there I make the most of this current existence because it will never happen again.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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30-12-2014, 10:21 AM
RE: Passing On.
(30-12-2014 10:01 AM)Free Wrote:  I think it is perfectly natural that our inherent fear of the finality of death compels many of us to "hope" that the finality is actually not final.

Says the man who hasn't recently been on one of Baba Bozo's thread.....

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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30-12-2014, 10:41 AM
RE: Passing On.
(30-12-2014 10:21 AM)gofish! Wrote:  
(30-12-2014 10:01 AM)Free Wrote:  I think it is perfectly natural that our inherent fear of the finality of death compels many of us to "hope" that the finality is actually not final.

Says the man who hasn't recently been on one of Baba Bozo's thread.....

And I have no intention of getting on one of Baba Bozo's threads. I would much rather have an intelligent discussion instead. Smile

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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30-12-2014, 11:00 AM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2014 12:21 PM by gofish!.)
RE: Passing On.
So, to redeem myself for my mischief...

I see all of these wild suppositions as a response not only to our inherited survival instincts bashing up against the hard rocks of reality (we see death all around us), but also a emotional response to a simple reality that we cannot begin to understand: that is, what it is like not to exist. We can't imagine what that feels like, so our poorly-equiped problem-solving brains refuse to accept defeat and start generating these wild hypotheses.

Of course, logic dictates (if you are an atheist) that non-existence will "feel" the same as what one felt 100 years before you were born (i.e. nothing), but that doesn't necessarily make it easier to accept.

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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04-01-2015, 08:57 PM
RE: Passing On.
(30-12-2014 11:00 AM)gofish! Wrote:  I see all of these wild suppositions as a response not only to our inherited survival instincts bashing up against the hard rocks of reality (we see death all around us), but also a emotional response to a simple reality that we cannot begin to understand: that is, what it is like not to exist. We can't imagine what that feels like, so our poorly-equipped problem-solving brains refuse to accept defeat and start generating these wild hypotheses.
I am not completely convinced that most people would, if granted biological immortality somehow, choose to have new experiences beyond a certain point. I am not certain that there isn't a point beyond which there's nothing truly new to be experienced.

On the other hand, I haven't reached that point and, if I had good quality of life, doubt I'd reach it by the traditional 70-80 year life expectancy. So I am in favor of true medical advances in life extension, but don't see anything that compelling about life in general principle that I'd want it to go on forever. Immortality could well be its own hell. It's nice to have options, but I think we are so fixated sometimes on how short life is that we think making it infinitely long would actually be a Good Thing.

That said ... I am not afraid of death. I respect the process of dying ... it can be painful and I've certainly witnessed incidences of that. But death itself ... an end to human suffering? I can live with that. Er, die with it. Whatever.
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