Past Life Regressions.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-12-2011, 05:51 PM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2011 05:54 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: Past Life Regressions.
(29-12-2011 02:39 PM)Luminon Wrote:  My mom was a regression therapist for several years. I also underwent regression therapy with her, because, you know, it was a family business and I had it for free.
So I know how it works. Unlike skeptics say, a therapist does not tell people what to see or say or feel. That would be introducing extra material and a waste of time. The therapy is quite unpleasant and tiresome and everyone want to get it over with clear conscience.

With me it was always quite light, I didn't get into the feelings much. I had visions of a few my past lives (particularly how badly they ended, why else would I need a therapy on them) but it was not harsh on me.
Unlike other mom's clients. Most of them soon started sobbing and crying. Many had problems breathing, when she took them into the moment of birth. Some of the regressions lasted for 10 hours of suffering, I kid you not.

Be as skeptical as you want. But tell me alternatively, where does it come from? Why did these people have such suffering within them? Why did they re-live their own death in a previous time of history. Why did they come with a problem, like allergy or phobia, there was a thematically related re-living of a past life/death and after regression the problem disappeared. (typically, a fear of water, a vision of drowning in past life, no more fear of water)
How can a mature person be turned into a sobbing wreck just by sitting relaxed and following a few simple instructions?
Therapists do not make people feel these things. They may only uncover a great trauma in a client. What they actually do is repated guiding the client through this trauma with all visions and feelings, over and over, no matter how bad it feels, until the client becomes gradually less and less sensitive to whatever is there. When the client is not disturbed by anything anymore, the regression is over.

Yes, as every therapist my mom had a few identical historically famous people and other therapists too. (like several Mary Magdalenas) But these were a tiny minority, not a rule. We think in these cases it was simplier and easier for the subconscious to re-live a well-known archetypal story, instead of visualizing something original but basically the same.

Is that possible? Psychiatrist Ian Stevenson did a great work in investigating the claims of reincarnation, divided according to cultures, ages and even body marks of past life mortal injury. By that I don't mean he praised reincarnation day and night, but that he sought alternative explanations when possible and conducted his studies objectively.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson

As for the method by which reincarnation is supposed to work, that would be another topic, probably a premature one. When we're not yet familiar with the vital (etheric) body, it is too early to speak of the astral body, in which Robert Allan Monroe did most of his Far Journeys. Great books, btw.

I maintain that this area of the occult is dangerous to the participants, who put their faith in an ultra extreme area. The fact that someone is a psychiatrist or hynotherapist is not indicative of their sanity or ethics.

In a human life we are all exposed to a multitude of experiences, nuances of which remain in our subconscious mind. Things that happened during this life can be brought foreward, often in a distorted state, while under hypnosis. What if the persons problems arose from their say 7th last life? Is it not more sane to look at problems emanating from physical birth?

I would suggest that mental problems arise from physical malfunctions, along with societal pressures occurring in this life, and that new age delving into esoteric arenas relevant to alleged past lives should be avoided.

I find the utilization of this stuff for entertainment purposes quite disgusting.
I am not saying that you or your family are ill intentioned but I think you are playing with fire.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Mr Woof's post
30-12-2011, 12:48 AM
RE: Past Life Regressions.
Past-life regression? That's called waking up in the morning.

Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean there aren't people who should pray for their sorry ass to be saved.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like GirlyMan's post
30-12-2011, 06:16 AM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2011 06:31 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Past Life Regressions.
(29-12-2011 04:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  OK, you're special. You don't think that could be a delusion?
Well, of course I'm special, everyone who know me say that Smile I stick out of the crowd, talk too smart, look weird (daydreaming), I have strange ideas about having fun (like writing on a forum in a foreign language) and don't get me started on my musical taste. And my illusions about personal relationships are countless.

But no, according to Wikipedia article I'm not delusional. Delusions are signs of an illness and aren't related to perception. I'm quite healthy and what I say is exactly about perception.

(29-12-2011 05:51 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I maintain that this area of the occult is dangerous to the participants, who put their faith in an ultra extreme area. The fact that someone is a psychiatrist or hynotherapist is not indicative of their sanity or ethics.
Well, I'm pretty sure my mom is sane and ethical and some of her co-workers too. But I know about specific cases in local New Age community that are neither. And I know about extremely dangerous practices that should be never done. For example, Kundalini yoga is probably the worst. Either you do it wrong and nothing happens, or you do it right and you'll get insane for the rest of your life, bye bye nerve system. Of course, Kundalini yoga is advertised as a method to give you pretty much godly powers. We of course do our best to stay away from such practices and discourage people from them.

(29-12-2011 05:51 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  In a human life we are all exposed to a multitude of experiences, nuances of which remain in our subconscious mind. Things that happened during this life can be brought foreward, often in a distorted state, while under hypnosis. What if the persons problems arose from their say 7th last life? Is it not more sane to look at problems emanating from physical birth?
Sure, regressing into physical birth is the classic. Lots of problems have their root in birth complications and good therapists make sure to look at it, unless they're sure the problem is elsewhere.

For example my dad's lifelong migraines. Both his birth and regression into it were extremely diffcult. After regression he had a strong catarrh for 3 months and then his migraines disappeared.

(29-12-2011 05:51 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I would suggest that mental problems arise from physical malfunctions, along with societal pressures occurring in this life, and that new age delving into esoteric arenas relevant to alleged past lives should be avoided.

I find the utilization of this stuff for entertainment purposes quite disgusting.
I am not saying that you or your family are ill intentioned but I think you are playing with fire.
Glad to see that you agree. We never do it for entertainment purposes or hunting after names and numbers, people like Marta Foučková do. All we do is strictly therapeutic. We don't experiment with people, although many scientifically minded people would prefer that. I'd better explain what is it about. Anyway, mom's out of this business for many years already, she only takes special cases from people we personally know.

The problem with restimulation of past life trauma is, that it may appear without any physical or social cause at all. It may be triggered by a vision of something completely harmless. The exact cause is a narrowed state of mind that recorded the trauma itself in our subconsciousness, but did not include the details when, where and why it happened. Such a non-descript subconscious record then awaits for restimulation by anything remotely similar. In the moment of restimulation, the body starts thinking that it is again back where the unpleasant experience was and goes into the state of shock. It may wear off after a week, but it is best to call a regression therapist immediately. (there is also a special grip to suppress restimulation, useful for times of emergency)

The therapist's job is to get the subconscious trauma into client's awareness and go consciously for it so many times, that the body will desensitize to it. The body will realize, that what happened then was then and now is now and there is no reason to feel like that anymore.
That's about it, the regression is a solution to immediate problem. It does not solve all wrongs that we might have ever suffered. It only gives a proper time and place label to bad experiences that were not given the label and therefore pop out of subconsciousness arbitrarily. It won't clean out the cesspool that is the subconscious human history, it merely takes out a few turds that float to the surface.
(29-12-2011 04:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  Hi Luminon: here's some thoughts Smile I'll get on with reading that other thread too.

Question: does everyone have a past life or do souls get created new? 'Cos we're 7 billion humans now... and the pop was at some stage down to the thousands if I remember my vague nat geographic ice-age articles correctly. So surely either lots of people should regress to animals? Or shouldn't be able to regress at all 'cos they have no past life to go back to...? The prob of regressing to Mark Anthony or Cleopatra should be vanishingly small.
Oh, the old question of internal consistency. That's another place where it must look like I make up things as I go. Smile
I've found the model of Theosophy most fitting for my observations and very non-contradictory with science. But it is quite a complex model of the world and not easy to explain with all the details. Let's say that part of the human soul is collective, with some parts individual. The individual parts are far more numerous than the present 7 billion, waiting out of the sense of time. And what actually incarnates is not the soul itself, more like a constructed vehicle of manifestation, or a one-man landing party on Earth. There can be several of them per one soul, some even incarnated simultaneously. (this is what Monroe also writes about)
Of course I can't personally verify and stand for all these things. Only some of them and so far it fits quite well. There are of course unresolved questions and technical possibilities and so on. This is why my second worldview is atheistic/scientific and I use it often enough to fill in the blanks.

(29-12-2011 04:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  Also, many more people should revert to Victorian era or early 20th cent since again, prob of finding someone from far back based on numbers of people alive is vanishingly small. If they do revert to around then, what sort of questions can they answer? Can they identify specific times, places and events, which the "current" soul knows nothing about? And can we independently verify their statements? If someone reverts to Lord Kelvin for example, can he talk about his own research in some sort of depth? Or do they all ramble in generalities?
Our local "witches" didn't go after the historical details. It was considered not good for the therapy to mess around in people's subconscious, searching for names, places and numbers. We could do that all of the lifetime, reviewing past lifetimes. And regression is primarily used on bad ends of lives, so traumatic that it leaves a subconscious reaction ready to emerge. These people usually aren't in state to answer many questions.
Sometimes we stumble upon some small nuggets of information, but we don't specifically search for them. For example, my mom went through regression therapy both as a North American Indian and a pioneer priest on American frontier, driving a tarpaulin wagon and caught and lynched by Indians. In this lifetime she really loves horse rides and films about Indians...
Or my dad, who has a hobby of astrology besides his day job, had some regression as a certain well-known medieval astrologer. But this is not a real argument, they might gain their interests from... wherever interests come from and somehow project them into some of the many regression therapies they went through.
But other therapists do that and they write books about the stories their clients described. Marta Foučková is my countrywoman who does this. I had read her books, but that was really long ago, I don't remember any details.

(29-12-2011 04:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  Also, does this reincarnation follow descent - does Lord Kelvin's grandson inherit Lord Kelvin's soul, or does Lord Kelvin's soul end up in the body of a Zulu businessman in South Africa?

NOT looking for answers or links Wink Just some things to think about Smile
This is quite a complicated question, but a welcome one after Chas the Inquisitor Wink Reincarnation has a lot to do with law of karma and it's not easy to explain.
The souls seem to progress together in groups of various size, let's say around 10 000, but there are exceptions from everything. There are racial groups, national groups, or groups of little developed souls that are drawn into incarnation by instinct and pick fast and rough rides in overpopulated areas of the third world. Smaller (sub)groups might be as small as a family (with some relative stranger ocassionally born in) or even two souls having a special affinity and history together. More advanced, older souls carefully choose every incarnation to develop exact experiences and skills. It is said that today in the time of global crisis more advanced souls are born, to get us through. Also, due to overpopulation there are many lesser souls born out of schedule. But the soul on its level is in a state of timeless bliss and can easily wait for centuries or millenia.

First I should describe the soul not as something we own and can inherit, but as something that owns us. Something like a superconsciousness, our higher, more intelligent and powerful part that never gets born, but accumulates all experience of previous lives. However, it is also a source of many mystical experiences and original object of greater religious traditions. Our consciousness is basically the light of the soul, filtered through colored shades of intellect, emotion and physical body, determined by its conditions. It is a curious fact that during meditation of high focus the very meaning of self may disappear and we stand for what we are, biological machines, without the shadow play of ego. What a humbling experience.

The soul kingdom can be called a continuation of mineral, plant, animal and human kingdoms. You can also imagine a soul as a spaceship that came to a completely unknown planet. It can not see much from the orbit, so it sends a lander with an astronaut to the surface. The astronaut gives some excited report from the surface, but then gets lost and never reports again. If he's ever retrieved, the soul tries to redesign his equipment according to its best knowledge and send him there again. And so it goes over countless millenia. (Or another astronaut is sent) Most of this long time the spaceship does nothing but watches the astronauts having "fun" experiencing the game of mortality in all possible arrangements, not really interested in reporting back home. It does not even hope of guiding, conditioning or even controlling them. Not yet.

There is no problem of evil on the soul level. The souls are busy exploring the lower worlds of human existence and building such a vehicle of personality, that would eventually allow them full manifestation. This is where the problems are and there is a definite problem with communication. The spaceship may receive data from the astronaut, but the astronaut hears nothing back, or very little, unless he (dies and) gets all the way back to his source. This is why many mystical schools place such an emphasis on meditation. When a certain small but significant degree in development is achieved, the person is naturally drawn to meditation. (and disciplining the body) Eventually there are several whole lifetimes spent mostly on meditation. Many people living today went through this phase in places and times when meditation or contemplation was common and socially acceptable. They are ready to train their intuition as a method of contact with their soul and thereby benefit from guidance and inspiration.

The experience of soul is a profound one and self-transforming. It belongs to all kinds of people and it does not care about beliefs. The soul does not care how we call it or even if we are aware of it at all. These things are up to us. However, the soul has a plan of development and enough accumulated experience behind it that it would be very wise from us to try to follow it as best we can. There is a total harmony and cooperation on the soul level and the souls want to re-create similar conditions on Earth. Of course, the personality has its own will. This is why there is no shortage of things going wrong, wasted time, rebellion, making karma, burning up karma, temporary seizing control by the personality, misuse of soul energy and so on. Eventually we will not belong to ourselves, as vehicles, instruments of the soul. By means of ego we will clearly express the distinct qualities of our soul, whatever they happen to be, artistic, scientific, leadership or other.

So much for theory, which is of course much bigger and I've left many loose ends that will look like internal inconsistencies. For the sake of brevity. However, the life of me and other people around seems to confirm much of that.
It is said that a person gradually becomes the vehicle of a soul. As someone with subtle perception, I can feel the soul's presence in my energetic system, characteristic by long periods of unconditional love and blissful nirvana. I can sometimes feel its nudges and intuitive bearings that I do my best to follow. (which is nowhere near good enough) But every time I followed this intuition, it turned out to be true or very useful. Of course, for other types of personality it will be the presence of Jesus or Vishnu's blessing. I don't know what's the skeptical people's take on this, maybe they simply think it was all their idea Smile

The brain is a computer and a computer can run many pieces of software, with different advantages and disadvantages. There is no need to run only one piece of software. What I described is one of them. The other is all about atheism, rationality and science. These two pretty much cover my needs and they do not necessarily contradict each other, as long as the edges between them are greased with some string theory and etheric basis of dark matter Big Grin

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
The Venus Project
FreeDomain Radio - The greatest philosophy show on the web!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-12-2011, 10:20 AM
RE: Past Life Regressions.
Luminon:

I would like to know your description of soul. When I was into these things I had a very specific picture of what a soul exactly is, I would like to know yours. Also do you only believe in soul or also in ghost as in both is a part of your being.

Second thing about delusions in general, I am quoting the wiki article that you linked:
wikipedia Wrote:A delusion is a false belief held with absolute conviction despite superior evidence.
How do you know that you are right? Your own experience is not objective enough to count as evidence.


Also I would like to talk about the whole regressions thing for a moment.
I mentioned earlier that I used to believe in it.
Several reasons made it impossible to keep believing in it, here just a few:
  • How does the human race keep growing if souls are reborn
  • What does nature get from reusing one the same soul over and over again
  • How does the soul store all the data about the past lifes
  • What happens to the souls when the world ends (latest point when the sun explodes)

Another thought about this kind of therapy/problem solving
Even if the therapist doing this with you doesn't induce stuff, you as a human are likely to simply imagine stuff. Yes, that is so.
You see, of course people thought about reasons why they are how they are, why they are phobic of water or can never sleep before 4am or or or. The mind even works on that when you are not consiously thinking about it.
Then at some point the idea "hey let's see if it's a life before this" > you already want it to be so.
Then you already do believe in past souls; without evidence so you are actually looking for evidence, and where to find it best than inside your own mind?
Dang, there is your past life and everything fits so fine and you don't have to worry anymore if you do actually have a real reason to have the problems you have, so you have a self-healing effect.



Believing moves mountains Wink

[Image: 69p7qx.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Leela's post
30-12-2011, 10:36 AM
RE: Past Life Regressions.
(30-12-2011 06:16 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 04:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  OK, you're special. You don't think that could be a delusion?
Well, of course I'm special, everyone who know me say that Smile I stick out of the crowd, talk too smart, look weird (daydreaming), I have strange ideas about having fun (like writing on a forum in a foreign language) and don't get me started on my musical taste. And my illusions about personal relationships are countless.

But no, according to Wikipedia article I'm not delusional. Delusions are signs of an illness and aren't related to perception. I'm quite healthy and what I say is exactly about perception.

I suggest you read this Scientific American article.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
30-12-2011, 01:15 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2011 02:10 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Past Life Regressions.
(30-12-2011 10:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  Luminon:

I would like to know your description of soul. When I was into these things I had a very specific picture of what a soul exactly is, I would like to know yours. Also do you only believe in soul or also in ghost as in both is a part of your being.
I'd better refer you to this website. The description isn't completely accurate (hell, the author doesn't understand evolution through natural selection!!!), but the graphs and images sum it up pretty well. The soul structure is collective in Atman and Buddhi (5th and 4th dimension) plus the individual causal body in upper half of manasic (3rd) dimension.

As for classical ghosts, that's astral body in astral world. (2nd dimension) But typically, ghosts who may influence people directly usually keep an etheric component after death. Or worse, they are able enough to create themselves an etheric body of their own.
Every dimension has seven sub-levels, or states of matter. Etheric levels are, for the record, the four top sub-levels of our own physical dimension, to which I am sensitive.
Needless to say, a ghost is invisible to us but we may be visible to him. This is an ideal arrangement for conmen and criminals of all kind. So we get these mediums with voices in head telling them they're angels, Jesus or friendly extraterrestrials. This is a form of parasitism. Hell, all the New Age movement is about a primitive astral (emotional) notion of spirituality, based on desire and illusions. They want to be deceived, they're begging for it.

(30-12-2011 10:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  Second thing about delusions in general, I am quoting the wiki article that you linked:
wikipedia Wrote:A delusion is a false belief held with absolute conviction despite superior evidence.
How do you know that you are right? Your own experience is not objective enough to count as evidence.
I'm not the only one around who is practically interested in this stuff. And not the most able by far. It's still experience, but it's shared therefore there's a degree of objectivity. Or was, at the moment when the event was happening.
But unfortunately, we must focus on the work at hand instead of studying the phenomena. Only very rarely I have a chance to find out about technical principles of subtle worlds.

(30-12-2011 10:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  Also I would like to talk about the whole regressions thing for a moment.
I mentioned earlier that I used to believe in it.
Several reasons made it impossible to keep believing in it, here just a few:
  • How does the human race keep growing if souls are reborn
We can't be sure how it actually is. My sources say that in the current stage on our planet, there's about 60 billion human class souls, mostly waiting for their turn. I don't know if there is any natural principle to stop births when souls on Earth run out and won't get replenished from animal kingdom, which they should. But I don't think there has to be, either. That's merely a theoretical problem, not a real one. Cut it away by Occam's razor, if you want.

(30-12-2011 10:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  
  • What does nature get from reusing one the same soul over and over again
  • That's actually a very interesting question. Let's say my sources say that by working with the matter itself and living in it, we increase the vibrational rate of the atoms themselves. This is so-called "salvation of matter". But again, that's a theoretical problem. Feel free to apply Occam's razor as you like.

    (30-12-2011 10:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  
  • How does the soul store all the data about the past lifes
  • Again an interesting question. My sources say that the very atoms of matter are sort of complex living beings. There are chapters in esoteric books about "permanent atoms", used to re-create physical bodies in previously achieved quality. That made me think. We imagine atoms as balls of protons and neutrons with electrons flying around. That is far from truth. I had read a book by Russian scientists and their model of atom was quite a complex one. Neutrons connect protons together into complex structures, which in heavier elements resemble DNA. Add to that again very complex electron orbitals.
    And that's just the material level. Esotericists say that every atom has its etheric, astral, manasic and other counterparts. Big Bang was supposed to be an act of one great final precipitation of originally quite subtle-material atoms.
    This is one of reasons why esotericists frown at nuclear fission, it's vandalism Wink

    But the actual memory of the soul is the causal body itself, so-called lotus of 12 petals, which grows, unfolds and brightens with gradual development.
    But again, good esotericists label these claims with big FYI or "for studying purposes only". Nobody asks you to believe. I don't either, I use it as one of my two sets of glasses to see the world.

    (30-12-2011 10:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  
  • What happens to the souls when the world ends (latest point when the sun explodes)
  • There are too many possibilities to tell for sure, but none are a great obstacle. One of them is, that at this time physical evolution on Earth might be already finished. It might be finished altogether or the life might exist in etheric form only, in both cases searing radiation should not be a huge problem.

    (30-12-2011 10:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  Another thought about this kind of therapy/problem solving
    Even if the therapist doing this with you doesn't induce stuff, you as a human are likely to simply imagine stuff. Yes, that is so.
    You see, of course people thought about reasons why they are how they are, why they are phobic of water or can never sleep before 4am or or or. The mind even works on that when you are not consiously thinking about it.
    Then at some point the idea "hey let's see if it's a life before this" > you already want it to be so.
    Then you already do believe in past souls; without evidence so you are actually looking for evidence, and where to find it best than inside your own mind?
    Dang, there is your past life and everything fits so fine and you don't have to worry anymore if you do actually have a real reason to have the problems you have, so you have a self-healing effect.
    Maybe, but that's not the point. Regression therapy is not exactly about imagination, belief or desire. It is about the hidden trauma and very real and strong bad feelings and the general state of shock in restimulation. This is something that can not be imagined. We can not bring upon ourselves a severe physical trauma by mere imagination, most of us can't anyway.
    Whatever accompanying vision the client describes, it is taken as an instrument to move around the experience and repeatedly review it. But it doesn't matter, regression therapy works even if the client describes that he was Cleopatra and accepted death from snake's fangs, so he's now pathologically afraid of snakes.

    (30-12-2011 10:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  Believing moves mountains Wink
    Believing moves crowds, not mountains. Unless they believe there are diamonds in that mountain Big Grin

    If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
    The Venus Project
    FreeDomain Radio - The greatest philosophy show on the web!
    Find all posts by this user
    Like Post Quote this message in a reply
    30-12-2011, 02:42 PM
    RE: Past Life Regressions.
    (30-12-2011 10:36 AM)Chas Wrote:  I suggest you read this Scientific American article.
    I can't view the whole article for free, but in brief:
    Scientific American Wrote:In Brief
    1. Most of us report that we believe in supernatural powers such as clairvoyance and telepathy and in the existence of ghosts.
    Yes, but we don't all have the same reasons for believing so. Most of people's reasons are not convincing enough. They don't take a long, detailed or repeated look at the ghost.

    Scientific American Wrote:2. The widespread reports of paranormal experiences very likely derive from many of the same mechanisms that help us make decisions in daily life.
    Again, that's possible, if the reports are of that kind. But there is so few people like me, that I'd be really surprised if behind my observations there would be a common neurologic mechanism. I'm pretty sure it's something uncommon, otherwise there would be scientific studies about it.

    Scientific American Wrote:3. Research suggests that a highly active right-brain hemisphere may cause someone to be particularly susceptible to improbable beliefs.
    I happen to know that this is not my case. Quite opposite, with me the left hemisphere is over-active and right hemisphere is rather lazy. I tend to focus internally on complex phenomena and abstract models of thought. I don't see much merit in external world, relationships, having fun, visiting nature and general socializing. Thought is emphasized, emotion is neglected. Hell, even most of my music is bizarre, complex but without emotion.
    I know what you mean. You mean these feely goody New Age types who hug trees and shake fists at traffic airplanes spreading chemtrails. That's definitely not me. Just look at a typical computer nerd type.

    If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
    The Venus Project
    FreeDomain Radio - The greatest philosophy show on the web!
    Find all posts by this user
    Like Post Quote this message in a reply
    30-12-2011, 05:58 PM
    RE: Past Life Regressions.
    (29-12-2011 03:41 PM)Luminon Wrote:  And are you calling my mom a witch?!!! Angry Big Grin Wink

    Probably. In the world of woo, I see two divisions, witches and psychics. I'm a witch, I'm thinking you might be a witch; psychics are frauds.

    "Pattern of identity" is a form of archetype. If you're in the orchid doing calculus in the shade and an apple falls on your head, you might think you're Newton - as a quickie definition.

    I remember "being Ezekiel" and "kicking it with Paul;" I don't consider "past lives," rather I consider that everything is remembered. In terms of my naive philosophy this is to state that there is perhaps a link between meme and superposition, two scientific hypotheses I use as a "pattern of identity" to guide the development of said naive philosophy. Wink

    [Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
    Find all posts by this user
    Like Post Quote this message in a reply
    30-12-2011, 06:13 PM
    RE: Past Life Regressions.
    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  It's still experience, but it's shared therefore there's a degree of objectivity. Or was, at the moment when the event was happening.

    That is just wrong. The experience happens only to one person - then people talk to each other, each about his/her own private experience. There is absolutely no objective evidence here.

    Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
    Science is not a subject, but a method.
    [Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
    Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
    Like Post Quote this message in a reply
    [+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
    30-12-2011, 07:04 PM
    RE: Past Life Regressions.
    Ok I will go through this point by point but first of all, you talk about your sources a lot, I would like to know your sources, please. I know there are good sources even in the esotheric circles. Books, people, videos? Gimme Smile



    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I'd better refer you to this website. The description isn't completely accurate (hell, the author doesn't understand evolution through natural selection!!!), but the graphs and images sum it up pretty well. The soul structure is collective in Atman and Buddhi (5th and 4th dimension) plus the individual causal body in upper half of manasic (3rd) dimension.
    I know it is very convenient to have a website for such things but I asked for your opinion not what that guy is saying. He does not state any sources and the only science site he links can't even name the people that are working on the articles, not very trustworthy.

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  As for classical ghosts, that's astral body in astral world. (2nd dimension) But typically, ghosts who may influence people directly usually keep an etheric component after death. Or worse, they are able enough to create themselves an etheric body of their own.
    Every dimension has seven sub-levels, or states of matter. Etheric levels are, for the record, the four top sub-levels of our own physical dimension, to which I am sensitive.
    Needless to say, a ghost is invisible to us but we may be visible to him. This is an ideal arrangement for conmen and criminals of all kind. So we get these mediums with voices in head telling them they're angels, Jesus or friendly extraterrestrials. This is a form of parasitism. Hell, all the New Age movement is about a primitive astral (emotional) notion of spirituality, based on desire and illusions. They want to be deceived, they're begging for it.
    So first of all, how do you know that these dimensions do really exist?
    Where did you get the thing with the 7 sublevels from?

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I'm not the only one around who is practically interested in this stuff. And not the most able by far. It's still experience, but it's shared therefore there's a degree of objectivity. Or was, at the moment when the event was happening.
    I have to disagree here. Own experience or a shared experience is not objective. Just hypothetical example: 5 People sitting in a circle, meditating together, hands are touching to have a closed circle so the energy can flow properly, getting a vision at the same time > not objective at all
    Then again you are reading a lot of material, reports of others, maybe you are in a few forums with this general topic, maybe a chatroom or two. So alot of these things may sound pretty good and you wanna try them, too. As you do already believe in this it is easy for your mind to produce the pictures and feelings and emotions that you want to experience in that moment.

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  But unfortunately, we must focus on the work at hand instead of studying the phenomena. Only very rarely I have a chance to find out about technical principles of subtle worlds.
    What work at hand? Isn't it important to understand what exactly you are doing? If nothing else then to improve your skills!

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  We can't be sure how it actually is. My sources say ......
    +
    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  That's actually a very interesting question. Let's say my sources say .....
    +
    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Again an interesting question. My sources say....
    I would really like to meet your sources, they do have phantastic ideas!
    What about your own opinion or factual knowledge?

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  That made me think. We imagine atoms as balls of protons and neutrons with electrons flying around. That is far from truth. I had read a book by Russian scientists and their model of atom was quite a complex one. Neutrons connect protons together into complex structures, which in heavier elements resemble DNA. Add to that again very complex electron orbitals.
    Yes, the theories of atoms, neutrons, protons, and electrons differ. Not a solved case, yet. But what point are you making here?

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  And that's just the material level. Esotericists say that every atom has its etheric, astral, manasic and other counterparts. Big Bang was supposed to be an act of one great final precipitation of originally quite subtle-material atoms.
    Do you really think all esotherics think so, or is it only your source? I used to be esotheric for a long time. Very deep into the whole thing but I did not think so. How does anyone know what the Big Bang was supposed to be, how do esoterics know (which means there was prove at some point) about counterparts of atoms in other spiritual levels/realms/callitwhatyouwant. I'd like to see the scientific studies to all that knowledge.

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  This is one of reasons why esotericists frown at nuclear fission, it's vandalism Wink
    And again I have to bring in some George Carlin
    "The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles…hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages…And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet…the planet…the planet isn’t going anywhere. WE ARE!"

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  But the actual memory of the soul is the causal body itself, so-called lotus of 12 petals, which grows, unfolds and brightens with gradual development.
    But again, good esotericists label these claims with big FYI or "for studying purposes only".
    If these kind of theories are for studying purposes only or FYI they are meant to be studied and believed. So again, how can you know that this is correct?

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
    (30-12-2011 10:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  [*]What happens to the souls when the world ends (latest point when the sun explodes)
    There are too many possibilities to tell for sure....
    You see, this is a problem. If one claims to know that the soul is reincarnating again and again, then one of the things to know and directly connected to that knowledge is, "what is going to happen with my soul when humanity ceases to exist?" So where does the soul reincarnate to when there is no earth anymore?

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Maybe, but that's not the point. Regression therapy is not exactly about imagination, belief or desire. It is about the hidden trauma and very real and strong bad feelings and the general state of shock in restimulation. This is something that can not be imagined.
    Yes, it is the point, exactly that was the starting point.
    Therapy with all kinds of methods have worked. But making one believe that he had just experienced a past life when in fact he "just" digged out a real trauma that he masked with some visions is dangerous. The brain has reasons to repress certain things. And if "forced" to release some it will still fight for your sanity so rather than letting the worst possible stuff that has happened to you drop on you like a bomb it will mask it as a "memory of your past life".

    (30-12-2011 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  We can not bring upon ourselves a severe physical trauma by mere imagination, most of us can't anyway.
    Yes we can, depending on your upbringing everything can be traumatizing.
    # traumatized because the parents shout at each other
    # traumatized because of seeing a car accident
    # traumatized because of having an accident
    # traumatized because never getting a sleep over when other kids did
    # traumatized because of getting soap in the eye

    Do you know how easy it is to traumatize a person over nothing? It is even easier to do that to yourself.

    [Image: 69p7qx.gif]
    Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
    Like Post Quote this message in a reply
    Post Reply
    Forum Jump: