Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
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01-05-2012, 08:51 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
Before birth, the decision is hers.

After the child is born, they have to agree to either put the child up for adoption, he keeps it, she keeps it, or they share custody. Either way, once it is born and not adopted, they have to share expenses.

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01-05-2012, 09:26 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 08:51 AM)Dom Wrote:  Before birth, the decision is hers.

After the child is born, they have to agree to either put the child up for adoption, he keeps it, she keeps it, or they share custody. Either way, once it is born and not adopted, they have to share expenses.
Of course it's her decision and no one (hopefully) wants to take control over her body...

but to share expenses either way is exactly the problem, because ultimately the woman decides what happens, from ovulation to birth and afterwards...
she has 3 ways to opt out, the man has 0 - for a mistake bove did mutually he has no say over his future
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01-05-2012, 09:30 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
I actually agree with MJB. What the fuck is happening here?

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01-05-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 09:26 AM)Vipa Wrote:  
(01-05-2012 08:51 AM)Dom Wrote:  Before birth, the decision is hers.

After the child is born, they have to agree to either put the child up for adoption, he keeps it, she keeps it, or they share custody. Either way, once it is born and not adopted, they have to share expenses.
Of course it's her decision and no one (hopefully) wants to take control over her body...

but to share expenses either way is exactly the problem, because ultimately the woman decides what happens, from ovulation to birth and afterwards...
she has 3 ways to opt out, the man has 0 - for a mistake bove did mutually he has no say over his future


The way I said it, she has one choice, the one that concerns her body. The other choices need to be agreed on or mediated. After the child is born it's all about the best for the child.

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01-05-2012, 09:56 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 09:30 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I actually agree with MJB. What the fuck is happening here?
Are you running a fever? Have you bumped your head?

Men can and do walk from a woman's decision to have and keep a child. Happens all the time. Guys vanish to other states or work under the table or have their wages under-reported so they don't have to pay support or pay very little. While there are laws in place to try to force support, men (and women who don't have custody) often get months or years behind in their payments. The courts are overwhelmed and often child support becomes the least of their worries. In some states, no matter how behind a guy is, if he pays a pittance of the amount owed...he can go on about his business for several more months.

The whole thing is...if a man doesn't want to have a child with a woman he is having sex with, he needs to utilize protection. Don't just go with "I'm safe, she on the pill, the shots, IUD, whatever." Take your responsibility up front.

That said, even the best efforts at preventing pregnancy don't always work...make sure you are willing to take responsibility for your actions...men and women. If you don't want to spend your life being a baby-daddy with some woman...find a woman you you would be able to work with in the event that you find yourself a father.

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01-05-2012, 10:02 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 09:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(01-05-2012 09:26 AM)Vipa Wrote:  Of course it's her decision and no one (hopefully) wants to take control over her body...

but to share expenses either way is exactly the problem, because ultimately the woman decides what happens, from ovulation to birth and afterwards...
she has 3 ways to opt out, the man has 0 - for a mistake bove did mutually he has no say over his future


The way I said it, she has one choice, the one that concerns her body. The other choices need to be agreed on or mediated. After the child is born it's all about the best for the child.
Her decision still overrules his... If she doesn't want to put the kid up for adoption, then there is nothing he can do.

I guess you could argue that his decision would overrule her's if the man wanted to keep the baby. But honestly, how often is that going to happen? If the woman didn't want the baby, then she already made 3 pretty bad choices along the way.

It really is a stretch to say he has any decision at all, even when it comes to adoption.
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01-05-2012, 10:11 AM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2012 10:23 AM by Vipa.)
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 09:31 AM)Dom Wrote:  The way I said it, she has one choice, the one that concerns her body. The other choices need to be agreed on or mediated. After the child is born it's all about the best for the child.

I guess I misunderstood your post then, sorry

But to add something: As Smoosh already stated, men can't have children without women who'll give birth to the child, even if they wanted. In an "equal" society women have by biological default the upper hand on children
Therefore I think it is even more unfair to say
a. women have sole control over what happens with the child (although that's biologically to some extent a given... and I certainly don't want to change point a., it's her own body after all)
and
b. the man has to pay if the woman selfishly wants to hold on to the baby without consent.


and @Anjele
They don't really have a choice other than running away because the second option is to give up on their lives.

Still I don't say this is acceptable, as long as the law doesn't change and the woman has no other choice (someone said they'll get a little bit of money but that probably won't help much - I'm only studying swiss law so I don't have much of a clue about american law) than to rely upon his money, standing up for the error is the right thing to do (if only for the childs sake)

But here the circle starts again, after the initial error (unprotected sex) she has 3+ options to not get into this dilemma in the first place, he has 0 unless you count illegal actions.
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01-05-2012, 10:27 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
Both should know that this potential 'dilemma' would be a baby...a real, live baby.

The decision to abort is gut-wrenching for most women who find themselves in that situation. I have been on one side of that coin and opted not to, but I have known women have chosen that route who carry guilt the rest of their lives. Not exactly getting away without a life change.

I considered adoption, seriously considered it...took a lot of steps toward it. But there was something about the pregnancy and feeling the baby move (no ultrasound then, didn't see the child), wondering what if I can never have another child, wondering how that child would feel either knowing all along they were adopted or finding out later and wondering why their mother didn't want them. In the end I kept her and raised her without his help. And I knew early on he wouldn't be helping me. That factored into the decision also.

Now the morning after pills that are out there now...that may have been a game changer for me.

But the whole thing is, if you don't want to father a child, then don't. Same with women, if you don't want a child, don't do the thing that could cause one.

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01-05-2012, 10:42 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 10:27 AM)Anjele Wrote:  But the whole thing is, if you don't want to father a child, then don't. Same with women, if you don't want a child, don't do the thing that could cause one.
True

And I completely (as completely as a man can) understand that you couldn't abort and couldn't give her away.

But it is nonetheless selfish
It is selfish of the man to not want to "lose" his future
But the woman is selfish too if she won't give up on the baby if it's without consent (in some way she doesn't want to lose her future too)
The solution can't be to consider her selfishness more important than his.

My solution is "socialist", as posted before ^^, because I couldn't and wouldn't do it in the woman's place either.
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01-05-2012, 10:48 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 10:27 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Both should know that this potential 'dilemma' would be a baby...a real, live baby.

The decision to abort is gut-wrenching for most women who find themselves in that situation. I have been on one side of that coin and opted not to, but I have known women have chosen that route who carry guilt the rest of their lives. Not exactly getting away without a life change.

I considered adoption, seriously considered it...took a lot of steps toward it. But there was something about the pregnancy and feeling the baby move (no ultrasound then, didn't see the child), wondering what if I can never have another child, wondering how that child would feel either knowing all along they were adopted or finding out later and wondering why their mother didn't want them. In the end I kept her and raised her without his help. And I knew early on he wouldn't be helping me. That factored into the decision also.

Now the morning after pills that are out there now...that may have been a game changer for me.

But the whole thing is, if you don't want to father a child, then don't. Same with women, if you don't want a child, don't do the thing that could cause one.
So the man should realize he is getting the short shitty end of the stick. Therefore the man should be 3 times as diligent not to have unprotected sex, since he will potentially be getting screwed 3 times as much for the same mistake.

I guess that makes sense considering we have to go die in the wars, sink with the ship, pay more child support, and serve drastically more time for the same crime.


Do men really have any advantages over women in our society anymore? It just seems like feminism has swung too far, and this country is becoming a matriarchal in nature. It almost feels taboo to even be a man anymore.

Don't scratch your balls or ass in public
Sex talk is taboo
Don't burp or fart in public
Don't ogle at some boobies despite the fact she is openly displaying them
Children are the most important things in the world.
Don't read the words on that girls ass...seriously WTF does she expect? Its not like I wrote those words on her tight cloth shorts so i could stare at her ass.
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