Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
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01-05-2012, 10:58 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
Your list are the things you think make a man a man? If that's the case, someone needs to step in and take charge.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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01-05-2012, 12:05 PM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 10:58 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Your list are the things you think make a man a man? If that's the case, someone needs to step in and take charge.
No that is a list of social norms put in place by women, as proof that this is becoming a matriarchal society.

I forgot a good one,
Withholding sex as a means of punishment to men.
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01-05-2012, 01:41 PM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
Sorry MJB, your list is peanuts in the face of the male privilege you don't even realise you have.

And yes, shock horror, a woman has the right to dress how she likes without being harrassed.

"But the point is, find somebody to love. Everything else is overrated." - HouseofCantor
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01-05-2012, 02:05 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2012 02:36 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 01:41 PM)Smooshmonster Wrote:  Sorry MJB, your list is peanuts in the face of the male privilege you don't even realise you have.

And yes, shock horror, a woman has the right to dress how she likes without being harrassed.
But looking isn't really harassing.

I think Dave Chappele explains it quite well,




If you dress up like a whore and we get confused, then its not our fault.
You were the one wearing the whore uniform!
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01-05-2012, 04:02 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2012 04:16 PM by NoahsFarce.)
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 09:56 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(01-05-2012 09:30 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I actually agree with MJB. What the fuck is happening here?
Are you running a fever? Have you bumped your head?

Men can and do walk from a woman's decision to have and keep a child. Happens all the time. Guys vanish to other states or work under the table or have their wages under-reported so they don't have to pay support or pay very little. While there are laws in place to try to force support, men (and women who don't have custody) often get months or years behind in their payments. The courts are overwhelmed and often child support becomes the least of their worries. In some states, no matter how behind a guy is, if he pays a pittance of the amount owed...he can go on about his business for several more months.

The whole thing is...if a man doesn't want to have a child with a woman he is having sex with, he needs to utilize protection. Don't just go with "I'm safe, she on the pill, the shots, IUD, whatever." Take your responsibility up front.

That said, even the best efforts at preventing pregnancy don't always work...make sure you are willing to take responsibility for your actions...men and women. If you don't want to spend your life being a baby-daddy with some woman...find a woman you you would be able to work with in the event that you find yourself a father.
This is not about dead-beat dads. They should pay child support.

The problem is HOW you define "dead-beat" here. Is a guy a dead-beat dad if he walks away from a baby he never wanted in the first place? I don't think so, but the current justice system (in US at least) would not agree with me.

You also cannot keep bringing up the whole "If you don't want a baby, buy your John Hancock a little rain coat" argument. It takes TWO to tango. You shouldn't allow a guy in you without protection even if you are on the pill. You are just as guilty in this situation.

The fact remains, guys get treated very unfairly in terms of having children out of wedlock. Hell, they get treated unfairly in the event of a divorce even if he's the greatest father in the world.

Why is this so? Because people empathize with women because of the whole child birth process. They don't empathize with the guy who didn't use the protection even though the woman let it happen in the first place.

I have a friend who pays child-support just because he makes a little more than his ex-wife. His ex-wife is now remarried so they have a double income. My friend still has to pay. That's just flat out not fair. He's a great father too. I asked him why he won't fight that... want to know his reply?

"Man, you just don't understand how difficult it is to fight something like this. I accept the fact that this is not fair and deal with it because I know most of the money goes to my daughter anyway."

Sure, this might not sound bad, but you need to realize that women abuse this one-sidedness. Many women rape mens' wallets with this child support tactic.

There may not be a completely fair way to do this, but that doesn't mean we can't figure out a better way.
(01-05-2012 01:41 PM)Smooshmonster Wrote:  Sorry MJB, your list is peanuts in the face of the male privilege you don't even realise you have.

And yes, shock horror, a woman has the right to dress how she likes without being harrassed.
I don't completely agree with that last statement.

While women should be able to dress how they want, they need to dress in a manner that doesn't attract the very pig-headed men they complain about.

Let's be completely honest here, there is a huge difference between a woman dressing provocatively and a man doing so. Men very, very rarely get raped. Women generally aren't the type to hoot and holler at men. The average woman doesn't stare at a man's crotch when he's trying to talk to her. Hell, I don't even think Lesbians do this to women.

Many men do commit such acts. Especially in group settings (I'm the man group mentality). Women know this. So why then dress with your cleavage out in open, navel region bare, and the bottom of your buttocks peaking through that skirt? Yes, a woman with a voluptuous body can do little to cover up, but generally, it takes SKIN or skin tight clothes to garner that much attention.

That is what we're talking about here. Don't dress like a stripper if you don't want the type of reaction that men at strip joints give.

I saw a mother with her daughter who couldn't be older than 14 at the mall some time ago. Her daughter had a full-zip hoodie on that was only half zipped. She had NOTHING on underneath. I wondered if this mother gets pissed when guys treat her daughter like a piece of meat.

I'm always so shocked at seeing little girls dressing like this. But yea, they have the freedom to right? I might be cold-hearted, but if you let your child dress like that, don't complain when a guy treats her like trash and does nothing but try to get in her pants.

Likewise, as an adult, don't complain about pig-headed men if you dress for those pigs.

You have the freedom to walk into a business interview in jeans if you want. But I doubt that's the impression you want to give. How about you use that very logic in the real-world.

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

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01-05-2012, 05:39 PM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
It's really pretty simple.

Sex between a man and a woman may result in a child.

If you have sex be prepared to accept responsibility for your actions.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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01-05-2012, 05:40 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2012 05:57 PM by Vipa.)
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
Quote:Let's be completely honest here, there is a huge difference between a woman dressing provocatively and a man doing so. Men very, very rarely get raped

erm... I feel like reading a conservative muslim's post... That is the very argument they make for Burkas

Sure a woman that dresses lightly will be stared at (I'd enjoy the sight too ^^ | and I hope they expect as much), maybe they even have to bear some comments from random idiots, but seriously? rape?
There's no freakin way to close the gap between light clothes and even the slightest understanding for a rapist. It doesn't matter wheter it was "provocative", it takes a sick mind to rape someone - and btw no matter how women looked in the past, rape isn't a recent invention and it's actually nowadays less common thanks to e.g. internet porn
(Sorry I guess you didn't want to defend rapists, but it felt like it had to be said either way)

About the rules imposed by matriarchy:
Quote:Don't scratch your balls or ass in public
Sex talk is taboo
Don't burp or fart in public

These rules are inventions of the bourgeoisie and don't have anything to do with women and everything with distinguishing oneself from the lower class

Quote:Don't ogle at some boobies despite the fact she is openly displaying them
depends on the occasion - e.g. feeding a baby isn't a deliberate booby-show ^^

Quote:Don't read the words on that girls ass ...seriously WTF does she expect? Its not like I wrote those words on her tight cloth shorts so i could stare at her ass.
agreed, expecting no reaction is illusionary. If humans wouldn't give a damn about looks, there would be no reason to dress up for special occasions, clubs etc.

@topic why are we talking about clothing? (m vs w ftw...)


Anjele Wrote:It's really pretty simple.

Sex between a man and a woman may result in a child.

If you have sex be prepared to accept responsibility for your actions.

Great. Back to "I like it, therefore it's good"
You make any defender of patriarchy proud (same reasoning).
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01-05-2012, 06:21 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2012 06:22 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 05:39 PM)Anjele Wrote:  It's really pretty simple.

Sex between a man and a woman may result in a child.

If you have sex be prepared to accept responsibility for your actions.
Again, that is not an argument. You admit the men are getting the shit end of the stick, and then you insist they should just roll over and take it up the ass.

Its an unfair situation, and there is a simple solution to make it more fair.



(01-05-2012 05:40 PM)Vipa Wrote:  
Quote:Let's be completely honest here, there is a huge difference between a woman dressing provocatively and a man doing so. Men very, very rarely get raped

erm... I feel like reading a conservative muslim's post... That is the very argument they make for Burkas
By that logic you should be able to run around naked without garnering unwanted attention....
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02-05-2012, 06:28 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2012 06:33 AM by Vipa.)
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 06:21 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  By that logic you should be able to run around naked without garnering unwanted attention....


Yes, and your point is?

Society deems this behavior unacceptable and that's why it will have unwanted attention, but even if someone walks around naked that gives nobody (except the police ^^) any reason to touch or even rape the person.

But if you'd read my post you would've seen that I think you're correct. But only to an extent and reasoning pro rape just because women walk around without a full body protector is the reasoning of conservative muslims and is crazy.
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02-05-2012, 06:53 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 10:42 AM)Vipa Wrote:  But it is nonetheless selfish
It is selfish of the man to not want to "lose" his future
But the woman is selfish too if she won't give up on the baby if it's without consent (in some way she doesn't want to lose her future too)
The solution can't be to consider her selfishness more important than his.

My solution is "socialist", as posted before ^^, because I couldn't and wouldn't do it in the woman's place either.


It isn't about either the man or the woman after there is a child born. It's about the child.

Both are responsible for it. Period, it took two to make a baby.

Luckily we have contraception these days. As recent as in my grandma's days as young woman that was not the case.

If a man wants sex and no babies, there are many ways to do it, including getting his tubes tied.

If he acts irresponsibly, he has to take the consequences.

The same goes for the woman.

If a man sleeps with a woman who wants a baby it's his own fault for not finding that out first. If a woman sleeps with a man who doesn't want a baby when she does, it's her own fault.

After the baby is born, they have both made or failed to make their choices regarding bringing it into the world or not. It now is all about the baby. They both have to step up to the plate now. They have to agree to whether the baby will be adopted, or whether they will share the responsibility. These are the two options left at that time. And that decision should be made together. One or the other can make the decision to keep the child. They both can make the decision to adopt it out. They are equally responsible, financially and otherwise.

We may all have a lot more control over bringing a child into the world, but the choices have to be made and each has the opportunity to do so.

Sex makes babies. Babies need care. Live with it.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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