Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
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02-05-2012, 07:15 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2012 07:54 AM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(02-05-2012 06:28 AM)Vipa Wrote:  
(01-05-2012 06:21 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  By that logic you should be able to run around naked without garnering unwanted attention....


Yes, and your point is?

Society deems this behavior unacceptable and that's why it will have unwanted attention, but even if someone walks around naked that gives nobody (except the police ^^) any reason to touch or even rape the person.

But if you'd read my post you would've seen that I think you're correct. But only to an extent and reasoning pro rape just because women walk around without a full body protector is the reasoning of conservative muslims and is crazy.
I never tried to reason pro-rape. Though even if I was I doubt you could call it that. A woman is almost always the victim in this situation, thus we tend to fell sorry for her. So we tell them its not their fault, which is mostly true, and kinda not. There are obviously some scenarios where they simply made bad decisions based on the world around them. For instance, walking down a park naked in the middle of the night might not be a good idea. You can't be blindly ignorant of the world around you and then simply claim you had no fault when something bad happens.

I was merely stipulating there has to be a line between a normal and slutty wardrobe.
Men ogling at attractive women in slutty wardrobes should be expected.


(02-05-2012 06:53 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(01-05-2012 10:42 AM)Vipa Wrote:  But it is nonetheless selfish
It is selfish of the man to not want to "lose" his future
But the woman is selfish too if she won't give up on the baby if it's without consent (in some way she doesn't want to lose her future too)
The solution can't be to consider her selfishness more important than his.

My solution is "socialist", as posted before ^^, because I couldn't and wouldn't do it in the woman's place either.


It isn't about either the man or the woman after there is a child born. It's about the child.

Both are responsible for it. Period, it took two to make a baby.

Luckily we have contraception these days. As recent as in my grandma's days as young woman that was not the case.

If a man wants sex and no babies, there are many ways to do it, including getting his tubes tied.

If he acts irresponsibly, he has to take the consequences.

The same goes for the woman.

If a man sleeps with a woman who wants a baby it's his own fault for not finding that out first. If a woman sleeps with a man who doesn't want a baby when she does, it's her own fault.

After the baby is born, they have both made or failed to make their choices regarding bringing it into the world or not. It now is all about the baby. They both have to step up to the plate now. They have to agree to whether the baby will be adopted, or whether they will share the responsibility. These are the two options left at that time. And that decision should be made together. One or the other can make the decision to keep the child. They both can make the decision to adopt it out. They are equally responsible, financially and otherwise.

We may all have a lot more control over bringing a child into the world, but the choices have to be made and each has the opportunity to do so.

Sex makes babies. Babies need care. Live with it.
They are both responsible for it, yet she has the option to kill it twice, or throw it to the curb when its born. The man is the only one who is truly responsible for the child's sake, because he has no choice.

You are just putting all the responsibility and burdens on the man....You feminist are fucking looney toons.
I guess this is why everyone says to never argue with a woman, you can't win. Logic doesn't even enter into the picture....
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02-05-2012, 07:25 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(01-05-2012 05:40 PM)Vipa Wrote:  
Quote:Let's be completely honest here, there is a huge difference between a woman dressing provocatively and a man doing so. Men very, very rarely get raped

erm... I feel like reading a conservative muslim's post... That is the very argument they make for Burkas

Sure a woman that dresses lightly will be stared at (I'd enjoy the sight too ^^ | and I hope they expect as much), maybe they even have to bear some comments from random idiots, but seriously? rape?
There's no freakin way to close the gap between light clothes and even the slightest understanding for a rapist. It doesn't matter wheter it was "provocative", it takes a sick mind to rape someone - and btw no matter how women looked in the past, rape isn't a recent invention and it's actually nowadays less common thanks to e.g. internet porn
(Sorry I guess you didn't want to defend rapists, but it felt like it had to be said either way)
Umm, no. Nothing like the Burkas argument. Extreme Muslims say women that don't completely cover up DESERVE to be raped. I don't think anyone deserves to be raped no matter how flirty they are or how raunchy they dress.

The argument here is that women should have the freedom to dress the way they want without having to worry about harassment. My rebuttal is that women SHOULD EXPECT harassment if they dress for the occasion. I made what I thought was a perfectly good analogy of this with the dressing for an interview comparison.

And your comment suggests you are talking about serial rapists. And in fact, we can get into the psyche of serial rapists, killers, pedophiles, etc... But that was not what I was getting at. Think about how many cases of rape there are in high schools and colleges. "I was at a party and the guy..." etc. It's not a big secret that boys of this age group view females as objects if they dress "slutty".

What's worse is if the girl dresses in that manner AND is super flirtatious. No, they don't deserved to be rape... what I'm asking is, how do you expect boys to act towards them?

Really, people find my mentality to be a taboo one. I'm not afraid to say it as I've said these exact things to my female friends. EXPECT to be harassed and even raped if you dress like a hooker. But by all means, you have the freedom to. This is the exact same idea as me having to expect to be punched in the face if I walk around calling people idiots. This is the exact same idea as me having to expect to be laughed at if I walk around in Speedos even if I'm not at the beech.

Don't mistake that for me defending rapists. They deserve to be burned. I'm just saying, take precautions. You wouldn't leave your doors unlocked would you? You would take the defensive action of locking your doors. So ladies, take some defensive action with the way you dress UNLESS you like the attention (I know many that do). But please, if you do like the attention, carry a gun... or at least some mace Tongue

I am having a daughter very soon. When she is older, I 100% promise you that if she attempts to dress too provocatively, I will flat out say, "Dress like a slut and expect to be treated like one". Of course I will intelligently discuss the reasons why I said it of course.

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03-05-2012, 02:34 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2012 08:56 AM by Vipa.)
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(02-05-2012 07:25 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  I'm just saying, take precautions. You wouldn't leave your doors unlocked would you?

Yes I would and I do. Living in a small village and not in the USA has some advantages ^^
And I don't think there are much taboos, but I still disagree. Just because rape is more prominent in media today does not make it more prevalent today than 50 or 100 years ago. And "slutty" clothes had nothing to do with it back then.

Dom Wrote:It isn't about either the man or the woman after there is a child born. It's about the child.

Although mjb has some "special" ideas i'll stick with him here
This is a non-argument. Saying "since the woman ignored Everything the man objected, he has to pay" is beyond logic. The reasons why this doesn't make sense are all over the thread...
"It's about the child" doesn't warp a wrong to a right.... It only, since the baby needs money from somewhere, raises the question from where that should be. But it has nothing to do with the problem itself. Sure we have to solve this simultaneously with the first problem, but the status quo is not a solution (because it is entirely one sided)
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03-05-2012, 06:00 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2012 06:05 AM by NoahsFarce.)
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(03-05-2012 02:34 AM)Vipa Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 07:25 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  I'm just saying, take precautions. You wouldn't leave your doors unlocked would you?

Yes I would and I do. Living in a small village and not in the USA has some advantages ^^
And I don't think there are much taboos, but I still disagree. Just because rape is more prominent in media today does not make it more prevalent today than 50 or 100 years ago. And "slutty" clothes had nothing to do with it back then.
Well then you don't count in terms of the locking doors analogy haha.

Also, I would seriously challenge your claim that rape isn't more prominent in our current age. This is because it has been steadily rising year-to-year (at least in America).

A LOT of this probably has to do with the vague nature of many rape cases. Like I mentioned, there is a difference between a rapist and a serial rapist. It's not just about the slutty clothes either. I would wager a bet that the girl who wears those types of clothes is also of the flirty personality. This is a dangerous combination especially in high school/college setting.

Now of course, rape is an extreme example of why a woman should take more care in her choice of dress. This was originally about harassment. I cannot fathom how any argument could support the idea that a woman that dresses slutty shouldn't have to deal with harassment. It's really simple, men like T&A. You show your T&A and men are going to drool and holler like pigs. Speaking for straight people here.

If I had rock solid abs and bulging muscles and walked around with my shirt completely unbuttoned, if a woman stares at me, it should be of no shock. Rather, it should be completely expected.

So again, dress provocatively, EXPECT harassment. Wear a low-cut shirt showing your entire cleavage, don't expect much eye-contact from your date. Expect construction men to hoot and holler at you as you walk by. Expect guys whistling out of cars.

Yes, all of this could still happen even if you cover up, but expect a lot more if you don't.
As for the child problem...

It's simple.... even if you are on the pill, you shouldn't let the guy go unprotected with you unless you are prepared for the consequences. It's pretty damn silly for a female to say to a guy "You shouldn't have had sex with me without protection then. At least I took precautions." I'm not defending the guy here, I'm saying both the woman and man are equally responsible in this scenario.

You can't tango by yourself...

Flat out, men deserve more rights in the children department. Women can easily abuse the current system and a ton do in fact abuse it.

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03-05-2012, 07:00 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(02-05-2012 07:15 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 06:53 AM)Dom Wrote:  It isn't about either the man or the woman after there is a child born. It's about the child.

Both are responsible for it. Period, it took two to make a baby.

Luckily we have contraception these days. As recent as in my grandma's days as young woman that was not the case.

If a man wants sex and no babies, there are many ways to do it, including getting his tubes tied.

If he acts irresponsibly, he has to take the consequences.

The same goes for the woman.

If a man sleeps with a woman who wants a baby it's his own fault for not finding that out first. If a woman sleeps with a man who doesn't want a baby when she does, it's her own fault.

After the baby is born, they have both made or failed to make their choices regarding bringing it into the world or not. It now is all about the baby. They both have to step up to the plate now. They have to agree to whether the baby will be adopted, or whether they will share the responsibility. These are the two options left at that time. And that decision should be made together. One or the other can make the decision to keep the child. They both can make the decision to adopt it out. They are equally responsible, financially and otherwise.

We may all have a lot more control over bringing a child into the world, but the choices have to be made and each has the opportunity to do so.

Sex makes babies. Babies need care. Live with it.
They are both responsible for it, yet she has the option to kill it twice, or throw it to the curb when its born. The man is the only one who is truly responsible for the child's sake, because he has no choice.

You are just putting all the responsibility and burdens on the man....You feminist are fucking looney toons.
I guess this is why everyone says to never argue with a woman, you can't win. Logic doesn't even enter into the picture....


I suggest you re-read. The man is equally responsible.

The responsibility starts when he decides to make a baby. Having sex is making a baby.

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03-05-2012, 07:57 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2012 08:01 AM by NoahsFarce.)
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(03-05-2012 07:00 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(02-05-2012 07:15 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  They are both responsible for it, yet she has the option to kill it twice, or throw it to the curb when its born. The man is the only one who is truly responsible for the child's sake, because he has no choice.

You are just putting all the responsibility and burdens on the man....You feminist are fucking looney toons.
I guess this is why everyone says to never argue with a woman, you can't win. Logic doesn't even enter into the picture....


I suggest you re-read. The man is equally responsible.

The responsibility starts when he decides to make a baby. Having sex is making a baby.
It's not always so clear-cut though. I mean, to really know if a woman is protecting herself, you have to pry a great deal. Are you going to ask the woman for proof that she took a contraceptive etc.? What if the woman has ill-intents from the start and lies about everything including the desire to have a baby? I stated this earlier, some woman abuse the system and take advantage of men.

It's easy for all of us to say, "Well, too damn bad. You should have used a condom or cut your balls off." This isn't a cop out when I say that men are WEAK when it comes to sex. Very damn weak. So weak that women can exploit it easily.

I'd like to say I have a ton of will-power (fought the whole drug addiction thing including conquering cigarettes), but I have to be completely real to myself... If Blake Lively was butt naked and all-over me, I can't say with 100% certainty I would be able to resist. Yes, I told my wife this very thing. I also told her I don't expect her to resist the actor that plays Spartacus in the current Starz series if presented with the same opportunity. Although I did say it's much easier for women to resist.

I'm sorry, but that's just the nature of human beings. Men really aren't meant to think with the right head in those types of situations. If me, a very traditional married romantic, admits to the uncertainty of being able to keep a straight head in that scenario, I can only imagine how hard it would be for a single guy to resist that type of woman and urge.

This is not a black and white matter. Hence I said that it's nearly impossible to make this completely fair. The MAIN point here is that currently, men have LESS rights when it comes to children.

I've met too many good fathers that are forced to pay child support to their ex-wives. Too many good fathers who do not have full-custody when they deserve it.

It's all too easy for a woman to take advantage. This is not even close to fair.

So now I ask you, what's your stance in a situation where a woman lied about her intent/contraception, pushed herself on a guy sexually, and had a baby even though the guy didn't want it?

Are you still going to take the unsympathetic stance of "The guy should have known better"?

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03-05-2012, 08:19 AM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(03-05-2012 07:57 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 07:00 AM)Dom Wrote:  I suggest you re-read. The man is equally responsible.

The responsibility starts when he decides to make a baby. Having sex is making a baby.
It's not always so clear-cut though. I mean, to really know if a woman is protecting herself, you have to pry a great deal. Are you going to ask the woman for proof that she took a contraceptive etc.? What if the woman has ill-intents from the start and lies about everything including the desire to have a baby? I stated this earlier, some woman abuse the system and take advantage of men.

It's easy for all of us to say, "Well, too damn bad. You should have used a condom or cut your balls off." This isn't a cop out when I say that men are WEAK when it comes to sex. Very damn weak. So weak that women can exploit it easily.

I'd like to say I have a ton of will-power (fought the whole drug addiction thing including conquering cigarettes), but I have to be completely real to myself... If Blake Lively was butt naked and all-over me, I can't say with 100% certainty I would be able to resist. Yes, I told my wife this very thing. I also told her I don't expect her to resist the actor that plays Spartacus in the current Starz series if presented with the same opportunity. Although I did say it's much easier for women to resist.

I'm sorry, but that's just the nature of human beings. Men really aren't meant to think with the right head in those types of situations. If me, a very traditional married romantic, admits to the uncertainty of being able to keep a straight head in that scenario, I can only imagine how hard it would be for a single guy to resist that type of woman and urge.

This is not a black and white matter. Hence I said that it's nearly impossible to make this completely fair. The MAIN point here is that currently, men have LESS rights when it comes to children.

I've met too many good fathers that are forced to pay child support to their ex-wives. Too many good fathers who do not have full-custody when they deserve it.

It's all too easy for a woman to take advantage. This is not even close to fair.

So now I ask you, what's your stance in a situation where a woman lied about her intent/contraception, pushed herself on a guy sexually, and had a baby even though the guy didn't want it?

Are you still going to take the unsympathetic stance of "The guy should have known better"?


Yes I am. Having your tubes tied is no big deal and also usually reversible. Take responsibility for your penis if you think it's so overpowering that you can't think anymore. Plan ahead, why should the woman be doing that by herself?

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03-05-2012, 01:11 PM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(03-05-2012 08:19 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 07:57 AM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  It's not always so clear-cut though. I mean, to really know if a woman is protecting herself, you have to pry a great deal. Are you going to ask the woman for proof that she took a contraceptive etc.? What if the woman has ill-intents from the start and lies about everything including the desire to have a baby? I stated this earlier, some woman abuse the system and take advantage of men.

It's easy for all of us to say, "Well, too damn bad. You should have used a condom or cut your balls off." This isn't a cop out when I say that men are WEAK when it comes to sex. Very damn weak. So weak that women can exploit it easily.

I'd like to say I have a ton of will-power (fought the whole drug addiction thing including conquering cigarettes), but I have to be completely real to myself... If Blake Lively was butt naked and all-over me, I can't say with 100% certainty I would be able to resist. Yes, I told my wife this very thing. I also told her I don't expect her to resist the actor that plays Spartacus in the current Starz series if presented with the same opportunity. Although I did say it's much easier for women to resist.

I'm sorry, but that's just the nature of human beings. Men really aren't meant to think with the right head in those types of situations. If me, a very traditional married romantic, admits to the uncertainty of being able to keep a straight head in that scenario, I can only imagine how hard it would be for a single guy to resist that type of woman and urge.

This is not a black and white matter. Hence I said that it's nearly impossible to make this completely fair. The MAIN point here is that currently, men have LESS rights when it comes to children.

I've met too many good fathers that are forced to pay child support to their ex-wives. Too many good fathers who do not have full-custody when they deserve it.

It's all too easy for a woman to take advantage. This is not even close to fair.

So now I ask you, what's your stance in a situation where a woman lied about her intent/contraception, pushed herself on a guy sexually, and had a baby even though the guy didn't want it?

Are you still going to take the unsympathetic stance of "The guy should have known better"?
When did anyone say the woman should do it by herself? I was responding to a lady here that mentioned that the guy should know better even if the woman is on the pill. I am saying BOTH parties are at fault. You can't just say "I took a pill so my bases are covered and I am going to let a guy have sex with me unprotected." That's just complete hogwash.

Quote: Yes I am. Having your tubes tied is no big deal and also usually reversible. Take responsibility for your penis if you think it's so overpowering that you can't think anymore. Plan ahead, why should the woman be doing that by herself?
A vasectomy, like tubal ligation, has a chance for being irreversible. It is however cheaper and much less risky than tubal ligation. And you have a very arrogant stance on the whole "control your penis" issue. I posed a scenario for you that is factually very difficult for a male to overcome. Males by nature have a stronger drive for sex. Males think about it way more often. This is all biological fact.

For you to sit there and brush it off like it's the easiest thing in the world to resist is very arrogant. You sound just like all of the people who never once smoked or did drugs who condescendingly told me to "just quit". No sympathy whatsoever. Not a very good way to treat people as you are part of the problem with the current system involving child issues for men.

Again, before you misconstrue my point... MALES AND FEMALES have EQUAL responsibility when it comes to sex. The problem here is that men don't have EQUAL rights when it comes to having children. SO many women abuse this system and also exploit the male's weakness when it comes to sex.


Do you think all of these sex scandals are abnormal? All these well-to-do men with power and money being caught cheating with multiple women... how many women of equal status are caught up in scandals of sleeping with droves of men?


That's just one little piece of evidence showcasing the difference in sexual behavior in Men and Women.

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03-05-2012, 01:25 PM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(03-05-2012 01:11 PM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 08:19 AM)Dom Wrote:  

When did anyone say the woman should do it by herself? I was responding to a lady here that mentioned that the guy should know better even if the woman is on the pill. I am saying BOTH parties are at fault. You can't just say "I took a pill so my bases are covered and I am going to let a guy have sex with me unprotected." That's just complete hogwash.

Quote: Yes I am. Having your tubes tied is no big deal and also usually reversible. Take responsibility for your penis if you think it's so overpowering that you can't think anymore. Plan ahead, why should the woman be doing that by herself?

A vasectomy, like tubal ligation, has a chance for being irreversible. It is however cheaper and much less risky than tubal ligation. And you have a very arrogant stance on the whole "control your penis" issue. I posed a scenario for you that is factually very difficult for a male to overcome. Males by nature have a stronger drive for sex. Males think about it way more often. This is all biological fact.

For you to sit there and brush it off like it's the easiest thing in the world to resist is very arrogant. You sound just like all of the people who never once smoked or did drugs who condescendingly told me to "just quit". No sympathy whatsoever. Not a very good way to treat people as you are part of the problem with the current system involving child issues for men.

Again, before you misconstrue my point... MALES AND FEMALES have EQUAL responsibility when it comes to sex. The problem here is that men don't have EQUAL rights when it comes to having children. SO many women abuse this system and also exploit the male's weakness when it comes to sex.


Do you think all of these sex scandals are abnormal? All these well-to-do men with power and money being caught cheating with multiple women... how many women of equal status are caught up in scandals of sleeping with droves of men?


That's just one little piece of evidence showcasing the difference in sexual behavior in Men and Women.



Firstly, I hold men equally responsible for contraception.

Not taking care of this and then screaming because the woman has an abortion is not fair. If both partners were to do each their own part in contraception, unwanted children would be rare. Between the pill, tied tubes and a condom, unwanted pregnancies would not have much of a chance.

Probably the reason why promiscuous women don't show up much in scandals is because the men won't tell. A lot of women however seem to be getting a kick out of telling. I don't know why that is so. I know I would never tell because it would be equally my fault.

And I am not at all anti sex or anti penis. I am just fervently for contraception and the avoidance of unwanted children. It would cut way down on abortions, child abuse, and use of government funds to raise children. It would solve a myriad of problems, both personal and societal as well as the overpopulation issue.

So yes, it may sound cold, but it is really important for everyone.

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03-05-2012, 02:12 PM
RE: Paternal Rights Regarding Abortion
(03-05-2012 01:25 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 01:11 PM)NoahsFarce Wrote:  When did anyone say the woman should do it by herself? I was responding to a lady here that mentioned that the guy should know better even if the woman is on the pill. I am saying BOTH parties are at fault. You can't just say "I took a pill so my bases are covered and I am going to let a guy have sex with me unprotected." That's just complete hogwash.


A vasectomy, like tubal ligation, has a chance for being irreversible. It is however cheaper and much less risky than tubal ligation. And you have a very arrogant stance on the whole "control your penis" issue. I posed a scenario for you that is factually very difficult for a male to overcome. Males by nature have a stronger drive for sex. Males think about it way more often. This is all biological fact.

For you to sit there and brush it off like it's the easiest thing in the world to resist is very arrogant. You sound just like all of the people who never once smoked or did drugs who condescendingly told me to "just quit". No sympathy whatsoever. Not a very good way to treat people as you are part of the problem with the current system involving child issues for men.

Again, before you misconstrue my point... MALES AND FEMALES have EQUAL responsibility when it comes to sex. The problem here is that men don't have EQUAL rights when it comes to having children. SO many women abuse this system and also exploit the male's weakness when it comes to sex.


Do you think all of these sex scandals are abnormal? All these well-to-do men with power and money being caught cheating with multiple women... how many women of equal status are caught up in scandals of sleeping with droves of men?


That's just one little piece of evidence showcasing the difference in sexual behavior in Men and Women.



Firstly, I hold men equally responsible for contraception.

Not taking care of this and then screaming because the woman has an abortion is not fair. If both partners were to do each their own part in contraception, unwanted children would be rare. Between the pill, tied tubes and a condom, unwanted pregnancies would not have much of a chance.

Probably the reason why promiscuous women don't show up much in scandals is because the men won't tell. A lot of women however seem to be getting a kick out of telling. I don't know why that is so. I know I would never tell because it would be equally my fault.

And I am not at all anti sex or anti penis. I am just fervently for contraception and the avoidance of unwanted children. It would cut way down on abortions, child abuse, and use of government funds to raise children. It would solve a myriad of problems, both personal and societal as well as the overpopulation issue.

So yes, it may sound cold, but it is really important for everyone.
Again, you misunderstood the point of my commentary.

I was responding to someone who said that a guy shouldn't have had sex without protection even though the woman took the pill. Do you really not see the problem with this argument? Do you not see the negative bias towards the male here? I am trying to point out to you that the WOMAN shouldn't have LET the guy do that in the first place. Equal fault here even though the woman took a contraceptive. She still allowed the guy to do his business without protection even though she was protected.

Your defense of women not being in scandals suggests you in fact do have a negative bias towards men in this subject matter. "Men probably don't want to tell"??? Come on, you're smarter than that. That argument has a gaping hole in it and you know it.

If you really insist on debating this way, I will pull references of studies on male and female sexual behaviors. Men are flat out biologically more physically sexual. It's a biological need to plant there seeds whenever they can.

This whole argument is about a broken system. It's about females and males being equally responsible for having children, yet the male has less rights.

That's what this argument is about. It's not an argument defending men that don't use protection. It's an argument for a system of justice that is both abused and heavily biased in favor of women.

I've given you many examples over and over of the imbalance in this system. Sorry, this is just my opinion... you have a very one-sided view in this matter. Please try to understand what I'm saying. Guys need more rights when it comes to child-birth.

A woman should have complete control over her body. So yes, give her the right to abort even if the guy doesn't want her to as she risks her life by giving birth. What I dislike is when a woman chooses to give birth when a guy doesn't want a kid and then forces him to make child support payments. That's not fair because it takes two to tango. The woman made the mistake of having sex without doing everything in her power not to have a kid, but then chooses to keep the baby. Why is the guy paying for when he was 50% of the problem?

On the flip side, why are ex-wives so easily getting full-custody AND child support from men who are excellent fathers?

THIS IS NOT FAIR NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO SLICE THE BREAD.

If the situation were reversed, women all over would likely be fighting this like crazy calling it sexist.

“We are all connected; To each other, biologically. To the earth, chemically. To the rest of the universe atomically.”

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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