"Peace Keeping" with guns?
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04-02-2012, 03:31 PM
RE: "Peace Keeping" with guns?
(04-02-2012 02:55 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 02:23 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Here's the breakdown of most military bases.

5% Cooks
40% Mechanics
5% Interpreters

Perfect! Leave them. Exactly half.

Quote:5% Intelligence/Strategy
45% Combat

Retrain them for something useful.

On second thought, that's far too many mechanics, once you remove the military vehicles, tanks and heavy guns. Take half the mechanics home; train half the combat troop in construction, water conveyance/purification and food production.
Give the spies jobs in financial security or some damn place.

No... Mechanics are extremely useful! They can teach others how to repair and maintain machinery such as irrigation equipment, tractors, all kinds of farm and building construction equipment, hospital equipment. I want a mechanic on hand because they tend to think logically.

The US's reputation is globally screwed. It's times like this when I ask: Am I the only one who remembers the Peace Corps? Yes, it was to promote US goodwill and values and all that, but they also did good works -they helped people learn to help themselves.

The planet has such a good opportunity right now, if all countries in the world would work in concert -not just the US. I think each country should send the best of their best people to work to help a disadvantaged country to learn what it's own problems are, discern ways to solve those problems, and enact their own changes from within. And the most important part: when that country has it's shit together, everyone just leave them the hell alone. Just get in, to your thing and fuck off. Why do people think they need to own each other? Undecided

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-02-2012, 04:04 PM
RE: "Peace Keeping" with guns?
Well this one sure did go in a different direction. Keep er goin though.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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04-02-2012, 07:16 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2012 07:20 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: "Peace Keeping" with guns?
(04-02-2012 03:31 PM)kim Wrote:  No... Mechanics are extremely useful! They can teach others how to repair and maintain machinery such as irrigation equipment, tractors, all kinds of farm and building construction equipment, hospital equipment. I want a mechanic on hand because they tend to think logically.

You've met different (smarter?) mechanics than i have! Still don't need thousands of tank and helicopter experts to teach farmers how to fix their tractors - they've been making do for years without spare parts. Americans aren't unique in understanding machinery; all the world isn't as backward as the US likes to imagine - or to bring about.
Some of these bases are in Germany, fcs!

Quote: Am I the only one who remembers the Peace Corps? Yes, it was to promote US goodwill and values and all that, but they also did good works -they helped people learn to help themselves.

Both England and Canada had similar programs. Great learning opportunity for the youngsters; probably no long term gain for the recipients of their attention, since more powerful forces were working against progress, much higher up.

Quote: I think each country should send the best of their best people to work to help a disadvantaged country to learn what it's own problems are, discern ways to solve those problems, and enact their own changes from within.

...or, we could just quit disadvantaging them...

They know what their problems are: the result of interference and looting by powerful foreign interests - political, military, religious and commercial. The legacy of colonialism, cold war games, economic tinkering and natural resource looting.

Don't you love how, when turning over prisoners for torture or selling heavy armaments, it's to "the legitimate government of Country X", but when it's about monetary aid, it's given to "corrupt leaders who misappropriate it" ? We support whatever bad ruler plays our game; cut off, depose or assassinate whatever ruler doesn't - regardless of how good or bad they are for their own people.

Getting out and staying out would be best. Fair trade might help, too. How about shutting down the western-owned mineral extraction and industry that poison the environment and abuse the work-force?

Or... here's an idea: Let the UN do its work.

But then, what native wouldn't appreciate the hell out of handouts from an occupying army?

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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04-02-2012, 07:28 PM
RE: "Peace Keeping" with guns?
(04-02-2012 07:16 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  But then, what native wouldn't appreciate the hell out of handouts from an occupying army?

You mean the free shoes? Big Grin
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04-02-2012, 07:32 PM
RE: "Peace Keeping" with guns?
(04-02-2012 08:02 AM)Jeff Wrote:  
(03-02-2012 10:53 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Secondly, this is how to truly keep peace. By helping your neighbor instead of trying to control them. Will a country really attack the U.S. if they are recieving help from them? I doubt it. It is at least less likely that a country would attack another if that other country is helping them instead of sending an army to control them. Can you imagine how many children you could feed with just half the budget spent on a military base?? That's a lot of full bellies.

I think your suggestion is well-intentioned but not well-informed by actual experience. For example, you seem to assume that the problem with filling bellies is money. These places with mass starvation are notoriously difficult to assist due to corruption in their local "governments." You send money and it goes into pockets, not bellies. You send food or medicine, the people in power sell it and keep the money.

On the topic of helping neighbors, that's what our foreign aid programs are all about, but if you've ever discussed it with the people who work for agencies such as USAID (and I have) you learn that it is very difficult to do good, with few successes and many very frustrating failures.

As for peace-keeping missions, aren't most of those U.N., not U.S.?

I totally agree here.
It would help if all governments were held responsible for their people but unfortunately I can't see this happening (old greed and corruption rears it's ugly head again!) The rich make money from keeping the people poor.

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04-02-2012, 07:47 PM
RE: "Peace Keeping" with guns?
Ha - as soon as I wrote what I wrote, I realized how hegemonic it sounded.

m'bad, I guess I had sick and starving children in mind. Blush

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04-02-2012, 09:11 PM
RE: "Peace Keeping" with guns?
Idealistically sane Starkers! Sadly we inhabit one hell of an insane planet. Sad
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05-02-2012, 12:41 AM
RE: "Peace Keeping" with guns?
(04-02-2012 02:55 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 02:23 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Here's the breakdown of most military bases.

5% Cooks
40% Mechanics
5% Interpreters

Perfect! Leave them. Exactly half.

Are you wearing a hemp sweater and flailing on some bongo drums right now? For the record, I think we could cut the defense budget in half and still have more than enough. And we have way too many bases.


Quote:Retrain them for something useful.

On second thought, that's far too many mechanics, once you remove the military vehicles, tanks and heavy guns. Take half the mechanics home; train half the combat troop in construction, water conveyance/purification and food production.
Give the spies jobs in financial security or some damn place.

Like I said, we ARE trained in several other things. Officers are essentially trained in diplomacy. And I worked construction before joining the military. Does that mean that after signing up for the army, I only know violence? My platoon constructed about 30 buildings and funded several of the schools that accepted women students. What I mean is... kill muslim terrorists shoot in face to protect christian america. Yee-ha.


Quote:I'd no idea - these are some skilled folks! Seven whole weeks of education in latrine digging and finding your way back from somewhere you shouldn't be in the first place. Okay, that could be useful in peace.

I am the combat soldier you are so gleefully mocking. I have a bachelor's in Computer Science and was licensed in food sanitation and was working on my Arabic while over there. We are not stupid or unskilled people, regardless of what ignorant civilians decide from the safety of their couches, thousands of miles from any third world countries. It's fantastic that you can type pleasantries on a keyboard without actually doing anything. But combat "killing machines" employed "where they shouldn't be" have done more to help than you ever have.


Quote:
Projectiles for the natives to use against visiting heads of state? Hostile, that!

Really? Have some maturity. You'd rather not attempt to help people without clothes or shoes because Bush was a douchebag?


Quote:
All of which building have been duly handed over, of course, to a a huge, enormous Iraqi police force... who didn't have their own housing, shoes, food and clean water for some reason entirely unrelated to 23 years of sanctions, bombing and shelling.

I don't understand you. Do you want to help or not? So food, shelter, clothes, and shoes given to people who don't have them are bad things? Lot of hippies preaching peace while sitting on their asses in the comfort of house in this forum. Yes, there should be world peace and food for everyone. But until that magic dream world pops into existence, we do what we can when we can.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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05-02-2012, 07:07 AM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2012 07:13 AM by Zat.)
RE: "Peace Keeping" with guns?
The US military does many things.

Among other things: invading countries that are only minding their own business -- on false pretenses.

Once there, it may even help when it can.

Yes, I know, it was the politicians who decided (with the 'decider' at the head).

The army only obeyed orders (this excuse didn't fly at Nuremberg).

I have a serious problem with army volunteers.

Basically they undertake to follow orders blindly and obediently, regardless how rotten, unethical or downright evil the orders are.

This is suspending your own morality and individual responsibility.

How can anyone do that is beyond me.

As I said before: you can't see the forest if you are staring at the trees. Rolleyes
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05-02-2012, 09:21 AM
RE: "Peace Keeping" with guns?
(05-02-2012 12:41 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  For the record, I think we could cut the defense budget in half and still have more than enough. And we have way too many bases.

Basically the same as Stark Raving said, which i enthusiastically endorse. So, we're really all in agreement.
What have you got against hemp?

Quote:Like I said, we ARE trained in several other things.

Like i said, that's good.

Quote: Officers are essentially trained in diplomacy.

And i'm sure they're very good at it. Even the 95% who speak no other language can be diplomatic in culturally appropriate gestures. More convincing without hardware on their collars?

Quote: And I worked construction before joining the military.

Wonderful. You're more than welcome to stay and help, or go home or to another base in a different country - it should be your choice, not mine.

Quote: Does that mean that after signing up for the army, I only know violence?

I have no idea what you know or what you can do. But there have been rumours - don't know how accurate; its television, after all - that many soldiers are recruited out of high-school (or malls or slums) who, once demobilized, can't find employment or affordable housing in the US. Just thought it might be good for [some of] those kids to learn peaceable trades. If none need further training, that's fine - it should be their choice..


Quote:My platoon constructed about 30 buildings and funded several of the schools that accepted women students.

Well, you said the buildings were for the Iraqi police, and i couldn't help wondering why they needed so much policing, or what happened to their original buildings. As to funding schools (any sex) that's exactly the kind of thing we want to do. You're already doing it? All the better!

Quote:I am the combat soldier you are so gleefully mocking.

No, i'm not mocking you, or any other soldier.
I hate your government's (and our present one's, and England's, too) foreign policy, and i hate the way they waste young people on unethical, unnecessary and unwinnable wars.
You are the combat soldier for whom i wish a better life, just as i wish it for all the peoples of the world.

Quote: I have a bachelor's in Computer Science and was licensed in food sanitation and was working on my Arabic while over there.

Exactly the kind of person we need for an unarmed peace-keeping force.

Quote: But combat "killing machines" employed "where they shouldn't be" have done more to help than you ever have.


I don't remember calling anyone a "killing machine". I do remember saying, people in invaded countries wouldn't need so much help if they hadn't had so much done to them. I did less of the harming, as well.

Quote:
Quote:Projectiles for the natives to use against visiting heads of state? Hostile, that!

Really? Have some maturity. You'd rather not attempt to help people without clothes or shoes because Bush was a douchebag?

Irresistable joke. Immature, yes. Both Bushes, btw.

Quote:
I don't understand you.

Evidently.

Quote: Do you want to help or not?

First, stop harming. Then we'll see whether help is required.

Quote: So food, shelter, clothes, and shoes given to people who don't have them are bad things?

It's all a question of why they don't have them, and how it's given.

Quote:Lot of hippies preaching peace while sitting on their asses in the comfort of house in this forum.

We've got to be someplace; it's cold on the streets and jails.

Quote: Yes, there should be world peace and food for everyone.

I concur. Most heartily.

Quote: But until that magic dream world pops into existence, we do what we can when we can.

No magic happens without the dream comes first.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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