Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
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04-08-2015, 04:42 AM
Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
So.. having had a few back and forths with Master (Mistress?) Heywood about the possibility of a friendly conversation I thought I'd get the ball rolling by setting up a couple of plush chairs, small table, crackling fireside and soft music space for us to natter away about things. Big Grin

So, by way of introductions.

I'm from a ways South, far from the American continent. Had twelve years of education (Not necessarily well spent). Completed a trade (Again, not necessarily well spent) and worked in a couple of other, varied, permanent places of employment. A classic 'blue collar worker' if you will.

I've enjoyed reading lots and have even tried my hand at such => http://peebo-thulhu.deviantart.com/ (Sadly, lost the pass words to the account and so haven't been able to edit/fix or update said page for ages. Sad )

My position about the world is that it is what it is. I'm pretty sure there's bugger all stuff lying about of significance to indicate any deities blundering about in the bushes.

*Settles into one of the comfy chairs and sets bottle of mulled mead besides the fire to warm...*

So.. should Master (Mistress) Heywood wish to throw in and time permitting (Have mentioned such in PM's to the other party) the other chair awaits and the liquor cabinet is well stocked. Big Grin

*P.S. Sorry for the large amount of text. I know in the PM's I mentioned not liking such but I thought a good introduction was kind of a polite thing.

*P.P.S If I'm doin' it wrong? Please, feel free to correct/kick and other-wise castigate m'self. *Bows*
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05-08-2015, 12:57 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(04-08-2015 04:42 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  *P.P.S If I'm doin' it wrong? Please, feel free to correct/kick and other-wise castigate m'self. *Bows*

Your doing it just right Peebothuhul. Thanks for setting a warm and welcoming stage for discussion.

I'm not sure where to begin our discussion. I do believe there are observations of our reality which indicate the existence of God. By "God" I mean an intelligent creator and maintainer of our reality. My conception of God is pretty broad. God could be the Judeo Christian God we are all familiar with or simply an intellect existing outside our reality.....like a kid running a simulation of us on his computer. We both agreed to keep our posts short and avoid walls of text. Do you have any specific questions you want to ask me or should I just pick one of my views and start talking about?
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05-08-2015, 01:02 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(05-08-2015 12:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Your doing it just right Peebothuhul. Thanks for setting a warm and welcoming stage for discussion.

Big Grin

Thank'e

(05-08-2015 12:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm not sure where to begin our discussion. I do believe there are observations of our reality which indicate the existence of God. By "God" I mean an intelligent creator and maintainer of our reality. My conception of God is pretty broad. God could be the Judeo Christian God we are all familiar with or simply an intellect existing outside our reality.....like a kid running a simulation of us on his computer. We both agreed to keep our posts short and avoid walls of text. Do you have any specific questions you want to ask me or should I just pick one of my views and start talking about?

Okay... first, I suppose, what is it you see indicative of a deity?

Second, what are the boundaries/edges/(I do not want to use the word/term 'limits')/depth of field of said deity?

Third, might there be deities (Plural)? If so, why? If not, why?

*Checks temperature of the mead...*

Big Grin
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05-08-2015, 01:21 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(05-08-2015 01:02 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Okay... first, I suppose, what is it you see indicative of a deity?

A few different things really. But I will start out talking about one of them. If God exists and is interacting with the world then we should expect to see things happening that do not have local causes. I believe science has shown that there are events which have no local causes. Quantum randomness. An atom decays without any apparent cause.

Now some would say I am making a god of the gaps argument. I am not. Bell's theorem tells us that no theory of hidden local variables could ever explain all the predictions of quantum mechanics. In our world it seems that on the quantum level at least, some things happen that are simply un-caused or that the cause is non local. I put my money on the latter and reject the former.
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05-08-2015, 01:24 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(05-08-2015 01:21 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A few different things really. But I will start out talking about one of them. If God exists and is interacting with the world then we should expect to see things happening that do not have local causes. I believe science has shown that there are events which have no local causes. Quantum randomness. An atom decays without any apparent cause.

Now some would say I am making a god of the gaps argument. I am not. Bell's theorem tells us that no theory of hidden local variables could ever explain all the predictions of quantum mechanics. In our world it seems that on the quantum level at least, some things happen that are simply un-caused or that the cause is non local. I put my money on the latter and reject the former.

Quick post/reply before I go to bed and I apologize for the flippant nature of said post... but....

If your deity operates within the quantum world, then it's a really tiny deity. Smile

Though, it would be awesome, chibi cute. Big Grin

Hehe! Maybe 'Janet Pim' from Antman? Laugh out load

Again, sorry and I'm way to tired and off to bed.
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05-08-2015, 01:41 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(05-08-2015 01:24 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Quick post/reply before I go to bed and I apologize for the flippant nature of said post... but....

If your deity operates within the quantum world, then it's a really tiny deity. Smile

Though, it would be awesome, chibi cute. Big Grin

Hehe! Maybe 'Janet Pim' from Antman? Laugh out load

Again, sorry and I'm way to tired and off to bed.

Good night, I will be off to bed soon too. I would just like to say I use the quantum world as an example because those kind of events.....effects which have no cause, or effects which have no local cause, happen all the time in the quantum world. Its an easy example. If you think about it, the quantum level is exactly the place we should be looking for God. The quantum level is the foundation of our reality. If there is anywhere we would see God's hand in maintaining our reality it would be here.

Does God work miracles, like say heal amputees? I don't know. I would think though, that if God works a miracle there would need to be a point behind it. For instance if the resurrection and accession of Jesus Christ actually happened that would be a miracle. There also seems to be a point to it. The resurrection and accession of Jesus Christ convey to us that death isn't the end. Could God convey that message without a miracle?
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05-08-2015, 01:44 AM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2015 09:23 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
I cordially invite all observers of this politest of matches to remain in the drawing room and away from the fire place.

Live action match in progress.


Commentary Box can be found here.

[Image: hqdefault.jpg]

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06-08-2015, 12:10 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(05-08-2015 01:41 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Does God work miracles, like say heal amputees? I don't know. I would think though, that if God works a miracle there would need to be a point behind it. For instance if the resurrection and accession of Jesus Christ actually happened that would be a miracle. There also seems to be a point to it. The resurrection and accession of Jesus Christ convey to us that death isn't the end. Could God convey that message without a miracle?

As Bucky pointed out in his commentary thread, I misspelled ascension. I'm sorry about that, it was late and I had the zoom set low. Just to clarify my point, I don't believe that we should be looking for miraculous evidence of God. If God is going to work a miracle, it is going to be in a narrow and rare situation. We are not going to be seeing God heal amputees....what would be the point of doing that? That being said, we should still see God's hand at work somewhere in reality.

Every effect has a cause. If God created and maintained this world then if we look at a chain of cause and effects we should eventually come across an effect in which the cause is non-local. To us such an effect would appear to have no cause and could not have a local cause. When we observe the quantum level, we come across these kind of effects.
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06-08-2015, 08:37 PM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(06-08-2015 12:10 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  As Bucky pointed out in his commentary thread, I misspelled ascension. I'm sorry about that, it was late and I had the zoom set low.

That's okay, I can't spell for peanuts either. Spell checker is your friend! of course, using words well? That's something I hope to get a better handle on as well.

(06-08-2015 12:10 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Just to clarify my point, I don't believe that we should be looking for miraculous evidence of God. If God is going to work a miracle, it is going to be in a narrow and rare situation. We are not going to be seeing God heal amputees....what would be the point of doing that? That being said, we should still see God's hand at work somewhere in reality.

Every effect has a cause. If God created and maintained this world then if we look at a chain of cause and effects we should eventually come across an effect in which the cause is non-local. To us such an effect would appear to have no cause and could not have a local cause. When we observe the quantum level, we come across these kind of effects.

Um.. except nothing at a quantum level does anything to 'support' the world. It's gravity and stellar formation etc. Hence Horizon's amazing journey out to Pluto.

I'm sorry, but was there a sort of question you'd like me to answer?

You saying "It's quantum" is all well and good... but then how does the chibi deity do anything? Where is the macroscopic interaction? Just tweaking magnets by a fraction doesn't seem... well.. like much/enough...

Or am I completely missing something?
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07-08-2015, 02:09 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(06-08-2015 08:37 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Um.. except nothing at a quantum level does anything to 'support' the world. It's gravity and stellar formation etc. Hence Horizon's amazing journey out to Pluto.

I'm sorry, but was there a sort of question you'd like me to answer?

You saying "It's quantum" is all well and good... but then how does the chibi deity do anything? Where is the macroscopic interaction? Just tweaking magnets by a fraction doesn't seem... well.. like much/enough...

Or am I completely missing something?

Please indulge me with some time (a day or two) to figure out how I can best explain what I mean.
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