Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
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10-08-2015, 12:04 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(09-08-2015 12:54 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  First, rubbish. You haven't addressed the actual fact that a photon doesn't need to 'collapse' and can quite happily be a particle smashing the heck out of what ever it hit (Other wise photovoltaic wouldn't work)

Photons do not collapse. It is the probability wave that collapses into a point. If this didn't happen, every photon entering your eye would be spread out across you entire retina and you wouldn't be able to resolve anything.

(09-08-2015 12:54 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Second.. so you are saying that there are multiple chibi deities literally holding atoms together or something else just as weird.

because.. you know chemical interactions are happening on an atomic level (I think) and hence... we should be able to see chibi deities doing all that stuff, right?

I never said there were multiple chibi deities. I never once said that. Your strawmanning here. I said the universe needs a non local someone or non local something to inject randomness into it because intrinsic randomness is nonsense.

(09-08-2015 12:54 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Again, how does your deity manage to be every where at once? Since it would appear that nothing (Not even light) can be every where at once.

More strawmanning on your part. I never said God was omnipresence. But I ask you how is it you and I are having this conversation when you are on the other side of the world? Your post didn't randomly appear on my computer. You had sent it to me. You caused an effect somewhere you are not located. If you can cause effects in places you are not physically present, why can't God?

(09-08-2015 12:54 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Unless you're only talking about the sub atomic part of reality.. in which case, again, your deity isn't really worth noticing (Unless you wish to become Oppenheimer.. Tongue)

Suggesting that what happens on the subatomic part of reality had no bearing or is of no importance to reality on our scale is absolute rubbish.
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11-08-2015, 11:49 PM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(10-08-2015 12:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Photons do not collapse. It is the probability wave that collapses into a point. If this didn't happen, every photon entering your eye would be spread out across you entire retina and you wouldn't be able to resolve anything.

Okay... I've already admitted my ignorance of things quantum. However.. I am pretty sure photons CAN be both a wave AND a particle. Hance why we can make lasers and such work the way they do.

Hence -being part particle (And not part participle)- they can interact with the nerves in the eye quite well with out some chibi deity being in every one's eye doing wave collapse things all at the same time.

*Chibi deity is in your head watching you masturbate... Blink

(10-08-2015 12:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I never said there were multiple chibi deities. I never once said that. Your strawmanning here. I said the universe needs a non local someone or non local something to inject randomness into it because intrinsic randomness is nonsense.

No... it's not. For your 'Wave collapsing' chibi deity to do its job it has to be every where collapsing all the wave fronts all the time. That is simply how the reality you're talking about is. At that level of 'interaction (interference?) the quantum deity MUST e every where, doing everything quantum ALL the time.. or the sun goes out while it's distracted doing its thing at the back of your eyeball...

*Um....eeewww.. another gross image there... sorry...

(10-08-2015 12:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  More strawmanning on your part. I never said God was omnipresence. But I ask you how is it you and I are having this conversation when you are on the other side of the world? Your post didn't randomly appear on my computer. You had sent it to me. You caused an effect somewhere you are not located. If you can cause effects in places you are not physically present, why can't God?

But... your deity has to be omnipresent. See above comment quote part. The deity must, simply be every where doing everything quantum all the time. Otherwise... 'Bam' something wrong/bad happens when they don't do it...

As for me posting to you? How do you know what's on the other side of the screen from you isn't a bored chibi deity passing the time by messing with some one's mind?

As for reality continuing on with out us watching it? Yah, that's another tree falling to discuss.

(10-08-2015 12:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Suggesting that what happens on the subatomic part of reality had no bearing or is of no importance to reality on our scale is absolute rubbish.

Yah, I admit again I'm really not up on quantum things and how much they do or don't do things at the 'larger' end of things... Sadcryface
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12-08-2015, 02:12 AM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2015 02:22 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(11-08-2015 11:49 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Okay... I've already admitted my ignorance of things quantum. However.. I am pretty sure photons CAN be both a wave AND a particle. Hance why we can make lasers and such work the way they do.

Hence -being part particle (And not part participle)- they can interact with the nerves in the eye quite well with out some chibi deity being in every one's eye doing wave collapse things all at the same time.

*Chibi deity is in your head watching you masturbate... Blink

Your understanding of quantum mechanics is not consistent with observations. The double slit experiment tells us photons are in multiple places at once and only when observed do their locations become defined.

Fire a photon at a couple of slits. It will go thru both and interfere with itself. Hence the wave pattern. Put in a place a detector and the photon only goes thru one slit. Why? Because now its location needs to be determined so essentially a dice is rolled and the results determine what slit the photon actually goes through. If God doesn't exist, who is rolling that dice for you? What it providing a random value to collapse the probability wave?

(11-08-2015 11:49 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  No... it's not. For your 'Wave collapsing' chibi deity to do its job it has to be every where collapsing all the wave fronts all the time. That is simply how the reality you're talking about is. At that level of 'interaction (interference?) the quantum deity MUST e every where, doing everything quantum ALL the time.. or the sun goes out while it's distracted doing its thing at the back of your eyeball...

What I perceive as two events happening at the same time you might perceive as two events happening at different times. Welcome to relativity. Why can't there be a frame of reference where only one event happens at one moment of time? What can't that special frame of reference be God's frame of reference?

(11-08-2015 11:49 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  But... your deity has to be omnipresent. See above comment quote part. The deity must, simply be every where doing everything quantum all the time. Otherwise... 'Bam' something wrong/bad happens when they don't do it...

As for me posting to you? How do you know what's on the other side of the screen from you isn't a bored chibi deity passing the time by messing with some one's mind?

As for reality continuing on with out us watching it? Yah, that's another tree falling to discuss.

A deity, which observes each event individually and can if it chooses influence that event, is essentially omnipresent. From your perspective that deity would always be everywhere at the same time. It would be indistinguishable from true omnipresence. If God is a being running a computer simulation from your perspective as a stimulant, that God would effectively be omnipresence.
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12-08-2015, 02:36 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
Um.. no, I'm pretty sure the double slit experiment does not show us that photons are some how in multiple places at once.

Other wise.. well.. weird things would happen with even people's shadows and lasers would be... weird.

However, you are not addressing my points that if there's a chibi deity doing all the wave collapsing. How ever they also violating traveling faster than the speed of light to be every where at once?

As for 'Welcome to relativity' I think you're confusing macroscopic effects with subatomic ones.
Hence why brains far cleverer than ours are still, currently wrestling with making a unified whole out of both. Even atoms can not violate the speed of light, hence why entanglement caused such a stir.

As for the finer details? You'll have to start a new thread some where else and ask for links etc. I just know that the collapsing of both still doesn't violate traveling faster than the speed of light. No matter how far apart the entangled atoms are/were.

Ah... but your deity is on the inside of the simulation. Not on the outside looking in. It's collapsing wave fronts, remember?

Okay... so you have a deity that is every where at once... how then does it get around the problem that it still can't 'communicate' with itself across distances faster than the speed of light?
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12-08-2015, 03:06 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
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12-08-2015, 03:07 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
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12-08-2015, 03:07 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
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12-08-2015, 03:08 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
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12-08-2015, 04:54 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
At work.

(O_o)

Um.... looks like you need some editing to fix your brackets.
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13-08-2015, 01:12 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(12-08-2015 02:36 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Um.. no, I'm pretty sure the double slit experiment does not show us that photons are some how in multiple places at once.

Other wise.. well.. weird things would happen with even people's shadows and lasers would be... weird.

You get the interference pattern because the photon goes through both slits and interferes with itself. This is an observable fact.

When a detector is present how does the photon "decide" which slit it will go through when observed? Weird things as you suggested don't happen because their is a deity "rolling the dice" allowing the probability wave to collapse to a specific location when observed.

(12-08-2015 02:36 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  However, you are not addressing my points that if there's a chibi deity doing all the wave collapsing. How ever they also violating traveling faster than the speed of light to be every where at once?

A non local cause would appear to us as an effect happening without a cause.


(12-08-2015 02:36 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  As for 'Welcome to relativity' I think you're confusing macroscopic effects with subatomic ones.
Hence why brains far cleverer than ours are still, currently wrestling with making a unified whole out of both. Even atoms can not violate the speed of light, hence why entanglement caused such a stir.

Information cannot be transmitted from one locality in our reality to another faster than the speed of light. A Deity, would be transmitting information from outside our reality into it. There is nothing in the laws of physics which prevents such an information transfer from happening faster than the speed of light. Remember, A non local cause would be transmitting information into reality and not through reality.

(12-08-2015 02:36 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Okay... so you have a deity that is every where at once... how then does it get around the problem that it still can't 'communicate' with itself across distances faster than the speed of light?

Suppose you are just a simulant in a simulation. You pray to me...the being running the simulation and ask, "please deliver this message to my brother who is 5 light years away". I pause the simulation. I poke your brothers surroundings and leave a note containing your message. I restart the simulation.

From you and your brothers perspective the message traveled faster than the speed of light. From your brother's perspective the note magically appeared in front of him. It would be a miracle to you, but it would not be a miracle to me.
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