Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
Thread Closed 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-08-2015, 01:29 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
*Sorry, only time for quick response.

First problem with above. You keep going on about photons. Okay, what about other, actual, atomic elements? Electrons? Protons? Neutrons? What about when they're all smushed together and you get an atomic nuclei? As in An atom of Chlorine? Or Lithium?

What's quantumly happening then?

Also, see how your explanation now has to go 'outside' reality... Which is something that a lot of folks are kind of thinking doesn't exist.

If your deity is "Outside of time and space" then welcome to worshiping the great tentacle-ly lord and master Cthuhlu. Tongue
Find all posts by this user
13-08-2015, 01:55 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(13-08-2015 01:29 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  *Sorry, only time for quick response.

First problem with above. You keep going on about photons. Okay, what about other, actual, atomic elements? Electrons? Protons? Neutrons? What about when they're all smushed together and you get an atomic nuclei? As in An atom of Chlorine? Or Lithium?

What's quantumly happening then?

Also, see how your explanation now has to go 'outside' reality... Which is something that a lot of folks are kind of thinking doesn't exist.

If your deity is "Outside of time and space" then welcome to worshiping the great tentacle-ly lord and master Cthuhlu. Tongue

You can do the double slit experiment using electrons instead of photons. You get the same results. Protons, well you saw the video on quantum tunneling. Protons need a dice roll too in order to collapse the probability cloud into a an actual location.

Worshipping is an element of religion and I am sure you remember, I am not here to debate religion. I feel like you are trying to move the goal posts.
Find all posts by this user
13-08-2015, 02:00 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(13-08-2015 01:55 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Worshipping is an element of religion and I am sure you remember, I am not here to debate religion. I feel like you are trying to move the goal posts.

No, I'm just saying that "Anything outside of time and space" might as well be looking into the eyes of Cthulhu.
Find all posts by this user
13-08-2015, 02:11 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(13-08-2015 02:00 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 01:55 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Worshipping is an element of religion and I am sure you remember, I am not here to debate religion. I feel like you are trying to move the goal posts.

No, I'm just saying that "Anything outside of time and space" might as well be looking into the eyes of Cthulhu.

I agree, the second sentence of my first post in this debate was, "My conception of God is pretty broad." It's really broad actually and I suppose it could include Cthulhu. I don't know what a Cthulhu is so I can't say for sure.
Find all posts by this user
16-08-2015, 08:47 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
Hi, sorry for no reply yet. Extra shifts, helping folks out. Working on reply.

Much cheers!
Find all posts by this user
17-08-2015, 12:55 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(16-08-2015 08:47 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Hi, sorry for no reply yet. Extra shifts, helping folks out. Working on reply.

Much cheers!

Please, Take your time.
Find all posts by this user
21-08-2015, 12:27 AM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
Okay.. again sorry for the slow response.

To pick up my thoughts on what has been posted so far. (Lots of paraphrasing and waffling on my part)

Heywood initially posited that they were unhappy with seeming 'Randomness' within reality.

Hence, at the quantum level, there was something pushing things about and hence there was no 'quantum strangeness'. It is/was simply that we haven't noticed/seen said manipulator.

Then, when I pointed out that such quantum weirdness doesn't happen faster than the speed of light and so... anything doing any pushing at said level would effectively be limited by said known fact/effect Heywood proceeded to state that,

"Ah! but the quantum pusher exists outside of the reality about which they are pushing and hence can be every where they need to be to do all the pushing they need to do...every where..."

Then, in another thread which I can't find at the moment, Heywood admitted that their ideas of a quantum pusher existing outside of reality effectively makes said idea/concept effectively meaningless in the greater scheme of things since it was/is "Unverifiable, non-testable etc".

So... they have a deity which is effectively nothing more than a 'Feels good' for them.

Great... I'm happy for Heywood and, since I'm not Heywood, am happy to move on and look at reality with out bothering with Heywood's feel good.

Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
22-08-2015, 02:08 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2015 02:14 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(21-08-2015 12:27 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Heywood initially posited that they were unhappy with seeming 'Randomness' within reality.

I never posited anyone was unhappy. I said that randomness was almost universally accepted to be solely a function of ignorance. When it became apparent that some effects could not have local causes instead of positing non-local causes(of which God would be one) it is now assumed that randomness is intrinsic.

(21-08-2015 12:27 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Hence, at the quantum level, there was something pushing things about and hence there was no 'quantum strangeness'. It is/was simply that we haven't noticed/seen said manipulator.

It could be that we simply haven't seen the said manipulator. But if said manipulator is local, then quantum mechanics is false.....Bells theorem. I am simply unwilling to throw out quantum mechanics. Peebothulul, you don't get both. You don't get hidden local variables and quantum mechanics. I think you can do it with Bohemian mechanics, but that leads to contextual problems(ie the same experiment can yield different results depending on context).

(21-08-2015 12:27 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Then, when I pointed out that such quantum weirdness doesn't happen faster than the speed of light and so... anything doing any pushing at said level would effectively be limited by said known fact/effect Heywood proceeded to state that,

"Ah! but the quantum pusher exists outside of the reality about which they are pushing and hence can be every where they need to be to do all the pushing they need to do...every where..."

If you are non local, the effects you cause appear instantaneously. Have you ever played sim city? If the sims living in the city were conscious, when ever you paused the game and built infrastructure...say a road section(or bulldozed it) that effect would appear instantaneous to the sims. It would appear that effects are happening faster than the speed of light. The light speed limit is only information which travels through space. There is, to my knowledge, no speed limit on information which travels into space.

(21-08-2015 12:27 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Then, in another thread which I can't find at the moment, Heywood admitted that their ideas of a quantum pusher existing outside of reality effectively makes said idea/concept effectively meaningless in the greater scheme of things since it was/is "Unverifiable, non-testable etc".

So... they have a deity which is effectively nothing more than a 'Feels good' for them.

Great... I'm happy for Heywood and, since I'm not Heywood, am happy to move on and look at reality with out bothering with Heywood's feel good.

Big Grin

Then intrinsic randomness is meaningless in the greater scheme of things. It is non testable, non verifiable. It is really just an assumption created so one doesn't have to entertain the thought that God might exist. Such assumptions become necessary when you observe reality and find things which suggest God's existence and you are unwilling to abandon your assumption that God does not exist.
Find all posts by this user
24-08-2015, 12:10 PM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
Peebothulhul,

Would it be fair to say that a miraculous healing of an amputee would be evidence of God's existence? If you agree that it would, the next question is what is so special about the miraculous healing of an amputee that makes it evidence for God's existence? The answer in my opinion is because it is an effect without a local cause.

At the quantum level effects are observed without local causes.....so why aren't these good evidence for God's existence?
Find all posts by this user
24-08-2015, 12:13 PM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
At work.

Sorry... am stuck doing many days (Nights actually) over time.

Will try get back to you in free time. Maybe nextweek. Tongue

Sorry..... no time for more posting. Sad
Find all posts by this user
Thread Closed 
Forum Jump: