Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
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21-03-2012, 07:15 PM
Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
So I got into it on Twitter with someone claiming that "atheists have no morals" and that "we can only have morals through god" etc. In response, I wrote this.

I don't think it's the best treatment of the subject ever imagined, but upon reading it, I got multiple claims of begging the question/circular logic and such, and oh, I somehow proved "absolute morality" with it.

I'd just like a gut check since I'm a little close to the piece to see if that's really there (doubtful, but hey), and if so, good, I can tighten things up. Otherwise, I can just let the guy know he's full of shit.

Thanks in advance.
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21-03-2012, 07:50 PM
RE: Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
Haven't got time now, but will have a read later. In the meantime an introduction would probably be a good thing.

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
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21-03-2012, 11:29 PM
RE: Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
If you're intelligent enough you can make your own morals for yourself. However I wouldn't trust atheists with morals if my life depended on it. A lot of European atheists get their morals from their government makes me wanna puke. Mindless zealots. It was when I was confronting the morals of other atheists that I first realized that just because someone is an atheist, does not make them intelligent. I have never seen so much bullshit in my entire life as to their excuses why murderers and rapists should live. I pity the world where the government is the new religion and atheists are the new sheep.
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21-03-2012, 11:32 PM
RE: Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
TAS, point me towards the thread that says that please (I don't want to derail this so quickly)

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21-03-2012, 11:49 PM
RE: Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
I think arctic is talking about acquaintances not people here.

Your article is pretty solidly making the point, though drpping the length some might help. For instance your analogy (video game)was a bit too long. Something about your writing style makes it hard to follow sometimes as well. That'ssimply something you might want a few look overs to check when trying to make a persuasive essay (which is not the most common choice of persuasuion).

As far as the response that you prove his point that is the most stock answer a theist has ever had. You'll hear that all the time just ask KingsChosen =p

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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22-03-2012, 04:12 AM
RE: Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
(21-03-2012 11:49 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  I think arctic is talking about acquaintances not people here.

saddest moment in my entire life.

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22-03-2012, 10:37 AM
RE: Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
(21-03-2012 11:49 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  I think arctic is talking about acquaintances not people here.

Your article is pretty solidly making the point, though drpping the length some might help. For instance your analogy (video game)was a bit too long. Something about your writing style makes it hard to follow sometimes as well. That'ssimply something you might want a few look overs to check when trying to make a persuasive essay (which is not the most common choice of persuasuion).

As far as the response that you prove his point that is the most stock answer a theist has ever had. You'll hear that all the time just ask KingsChosen =p

Thanks. I'm considering trying again, but splitting it up into a series so that I can more solidly cover the two topics (and more) separately without it going into tl;dr land.

Unfortunately I've noted when I get into topics like this I get more stilted than I should be (noticeably so when compared to when I say, give a presentation), or at least feel like that's the case. As I've mentioned in many of my articles, it's a learning experience; I know the issues have been covered in-depth by better people multiple times over.
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23-03-2012, 05:21 AM
RE: Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
(21-03-2012 07:15 PM)Zevaeros Wrote:  So I got into it on Twitter with someone claiming that "atheists have no morals" and that "we can only have morals through god" etc.

Logically then, as god doesn't exist, the religious have no morals either.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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23-03-2012, 06:57 AM
RE: Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
While I don't think there is really an objective morality (just things that we can't really see any social benefit for in any case and reject as bad at all times), you don't really show enough that "we know that “absolute morality” is a sham and not even a good thing". You show that it changes according to religion, but there are those that will come right back with "the Bible isn't a strict guideline", "the truth is in our hearts", or some other BS that can get around that whether logically or not. Basically, showing that religion or their texts are wrong will not get people to the point of "knowing" that absolute morality (in general) is a sham or not good.

I agree that morality is an environmental thing. Where in our morals does it say not to pull the chtrilstrom of a mbran? (yeah, made that up) Most morals deal directly with human interaction and maybe other species as well, and you can trace the point where some of them have been abstracted a bit past that. Most of them still deal only with human interaction and at times only with local behavior. We've learned that morals for a nation are not the same as morals for an individual, so creating morals of how planetary conduct or galactic conduct or how we should interact with intelligence from another dimension is not defined. We can't really know without interaction. Yeah, part of that environment is through our learning. Human morality probably improved immensely with writing and the ability to pass down information in more accurate means. Of course it also brought with it thinking from before. It's possible that absolute morality is a product of social dealings that were worked out over time, but nobody knew exactly how they came about, just that it worked and made things run smoother. So people just "had" to follow them. With writing that might have changed, but it's possible that's where the mindset came from and then developed into a base for religious thinking. Granted it was probably already tied to that, but probably rather loosely. If you look at the Greek gods and the stories, their morality is formed around appeasing the gods. Not because the gods tell them it's correct or moral, but that the reaction from the gods may be fierce. It's like human morality... it is human morality personified in a way. With monotheism it could all focus on one point and make that complex interaction straightforward and easy to understand. Do this because it is good and the divine commander says so... oh, and if you don't you get punished.

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23-03-2012, 07:15 PM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2012 09:30 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Peer Review Request: Where Do We Get Our Morals From?
Maybe a little Anthropology would help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality
Check out the anthro section, and the mirror neurons section. Religion is not the origin of morality, or ethics. It, (religion), usually refects the prevailing local culture.

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