People Just Need a Higher Power
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13-08-2012, 11:52 PM
People Just Need a Higher Power
You can see it in our cultures, our movies, our stories, the way we speak and act, and the way we place honor, respect, bravery, honesty, and integrity up on pedestals to be cherished above all else by human standards. I think people look around at human nature; the killing and cheating and backstabbing and lying and deceiving and dishonoring and betraying and the overall apathy that we maintain by allowing all this happen. People see all this and just desire something, an ideal of goodness, outside the contamination of our disgusting race, that we should all strive to achieve.

This is the reason they all ignore the illogical fallacies and nonsensical rationality with their religion. They have labeled this ideal "God" and need what it stands for so they can try to rise above the filth of human beings. This is why most religions share similar virtues such as selflessness, humility (subjugation to their God is simply humbling themselves to this higher ideal of ethics), and unconditional love for fellow man.

This is also why there are things that don't make sense in accordance with their religion. They'll claim that Christianity only preaches to love everyone and forgive all. When you bring up the issue of slavery or all the people God commands to kill, they claim it's not true and shake it off. Because it's not about the religion or the deity, it's about the necessary ideals.

I tell you what, Christians. Drop the Bible, drop the religion, drop the sky magician, and I'm on board with you.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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14-08-2012, 07:31 AM
RE: People Just Need a Higher Power
(13-08-2012 11:52 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  You can see it in our cultures, our movies, our stories, the way we speak and act, and the way we place honor, respect, bravery, honesty, and integrity up on pedestals to be cherished above all else by human standards. I think people look around at human nature; the killing and cheating and backstabbing and lying and deceiving and dishonoring and betraying and the overall apathy that we maintain by allowing all this happen. People see all this and just desire something, an ideal of goodness, outside the contamination of our disgusting race, that we should all strive to achieve.

This is the reason they all ignore the illogical fallacies and nonsensical rationality with their religion. They have labeled this ideal "God" and need what it stands for so they can try to rise above the filth of human beings. This is why most religions share similar virtues such as selflessness, humility (subjugation to their God is simply humbling themselves to this higher ideal of ethics), and unconditional love for fellow man.

This is also why there are things that don't make sense in accordance with their religion. They'll claim that Christianity only preaches to love everyone and forgive all. When you bring up the issue of slavery or all the people God commands to kill, they claim it's not true and shake it off. Because it's not about the religion or the deity, it's about the necessary ideals.

I tell you what, Christians. Drop the Bible, drop the religion, drop the sky magician, and I'm on board with you.

Couldn't agree more.
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14-08-2012, 07:37 AM
RE: People Just Need a Higher Power
What they need to abandon more is their expectancy of benefits. I think the true “test” every religious person should bestow upon their shoulders is throwing away or ignoring the benefit of “eternal life for me, eternal torment for you” mindset, only then can one’s integrity become legitimate and they can focus on improving their “spirituality” for the sake of improvement rather than just participating because they expect a reward when they die.

Leviticus does not justify stupidity, but it is more than enough to define corruption of the human mind.

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14-08-2012, 07:38 AM
RE: People Just Need a Higher Power
My Gwynnies! Heart

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14-08-2012, 08:32 AM
RE: People Just Need a Higher Power
They also need a reason to be NOT responsible.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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14-08-2012, 08:50 AM
RE: People Just Need a Higher Power
Bud,
You started with a general theme then in paragraph 3 went all parochial (in both senses of the word).

The same applies to Islam and Judaism too (although for the latter the religion is largely just a tradition thing rather than an aggressive dogma).

The vast majority, fortunately, cherry-pick the bits that support their own desire for peace and harmony and love.

In other words, right-doing is more important than right-believing.

So let's not discriminate. Let's say:
"I tell you what, Theists... Drop the holy book, drop the religion, drop the sky magician, and I'm on board with you."

Wait... what?

That's Buddhism!

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14-08-2012, 10:21 AM
RE: People Just Need a Higher Power
(13-08-2012 11:52 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Outside the contamination of our disgusting race, that we should all strive to achieve.

I've talked to so many people about this, and I tend to get a few varied responses on the issue. It's on the term "worldview" and whether everyone has one or not. I lean more towards everyone having a view of the world whether they are conscious of it or not.

The three basic tenants of having a worldview are:

1.) How did we get here?
[An example could be Scientists, perhaps, examining evidence leading them to understand better how we "got here".]

2.) How did things get so messed up?
[Just about everyone can admit that things could be better. There's plenty of suffering going on to show this.]

3.) How can we fix it?
[The conclusion to the worldview starting with how we got here ultimately finding ourselves answering the most important questions of life.]

What I wish I could settle is whether Atheists want to admit they have a worldview, and if they are rejecting the idea, then is it only because the question is asked by a Theist?

In your above statement "our disgusting race" you seem to admit that as human beings, we are pretty messed up overall.
So this would mean that perhaps you have a view of the world, and that little bit is part of it. I guess that would be #2 of the three points right?
Then, what would be your #3?

(13-08-2012 11:52 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  This is the reason they all ignore the illogical fallacies and nonsensical rationality with their religion.

Who is "they"? Would that be a generalization of all Christians, like myself?

If there were illogical fallacies that I'm ignoring, I would love to see what they are. The offer by some Atheists to this notion, so far, hasn't shown otherwise. Some Atheists would say the same of their own personal views.

(13-08-2012 11:52 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  They have labeled this ideal "God" and need what it stands for so they can try to rise above the filth of human beings.

Now, I'm wondering if you're using "filth of human beings" and "our disgusting race"
as terms that Theists would use, or if it's actually your view.


(13-08-2012 11:52 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  I tell you what, Christians. Drop the Bible, drop the religion, drop the sky magician, and I'm on board with you.

In other words "reason the way I do, adopt my worldview, see things how I do, become an Atheist, and I'm on board with you."

Easy enough right? Dodgy

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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14-08-2012, 10:25 AM
RE: People Just Need a Higher Power
(14-08-2012 10:21 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  In other words "reason the way I do, adopt my worldview, see things how I do, become an Atheist, and I'm on board with you."

Easy enough right? Dodgy

No, drop faith-based, magical, superstitious, absolutist thinking and grow up.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-08-2012, 12:22 PM (This post was last modified: 14-08-2012 03:52 PM by ideasonscribe.)
RE: People Just Need a Higher Power
(14-08-2012 10:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-08-2012 10:21 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  In other words "reason the way I do, adopt my worldview, see things how I do, become an Atheist, and I'm on board with you."

Easy enough right? Dodgy

No, drop faith-based, magical, superstitious, absolutist thinking and grow up.

I don't want to,
I'm a Toys-R-Us kid.

Maybe we can get this 'Faith' thing out of the way.
I know there are plenty of annoying Christians that say things like "It takes more 'Faith' to be an Atheist." and I'm aware that the term (in a sense) does not fit the Atheist.
What I think we should do is look at the term "faith" and see what's really going on;

So here's a definition I just now searched up on this site:


Faith


noun

1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.
belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

Ok, so is it possible to use this word 'faith' in different ways? It looks like it is. Just as it's possible to use other words in different ways.
I would think it's safe to say that you have confidence or trust in someone, even if it is just yourself. So, if I said "Do you have faith in yourself/someone?" could you say yes to that even if the word 'faith' was in there?
I think you could. We're just going by a general dictionary definition.

[[[I can easily accept that you don't have a belief that is not based on proof. So I will not use this usage of faith for you]]]
I actually failed to take note of the word usage here in my statement regarding the second use of the word 'faith' (belief that is not based on proof).
Now that I look at it this way, it looks like you can use the word faith in said second definition for Atheists since they cannot claim that their worldview is based on proof. The best they can do is say it is based on evidence, logic and reason.
BUT, there is also more definition if you scroll down the page..
"1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence "
I don't fall into this category since I lost belief in God until I examined the evidence. I had more of a presuppositional mindset about God as a child and that led me to halt my belief in God forcing me to examine what the truth is about reality. The examination of the evidence led me back to belief in God.

Anyways, the third definition of the word "faith" can be used to describe me because I do believe in God.
So, going back to what you said - "No, drop faith-based... thinking"
If you're using the third definition in that I believe in God, then it's "Drop belief in God-based... thinking".


I think that maybe as a rule of thumb, when people criticize something like "faith" as being irrational, there needs to be a specification of what you mean by "faith" precisely.

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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14-08-2012, 07:06 PM
RE: People Just Need a Higher Power
(13-08-2012 11:52 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  This is also why there are things that don't make sense in accordance with their religion. They'll claim that Christianity only preaches to love everyone and forgive all. When you bring up the issue of slavery or all the people God commands to kill, they claim it's not true and shake it off. Because it's not about the religion or the deity, it's about the necessary ideals.

I definitely agree with this. I find that, when pressed, a lot of my friends don't actually believe that the bible is true. One of my friends says that her type of Christianity is more of a way of life than a religion. I'll bet that if I could push a little harder, I could get them to admit that the idea of a personal god is irrational as well.

"Leave the atom alone."
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