People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
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25-02-2014, 12:12 AM
People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
Another conversation.

Do you believe in god?
Yes
Did he create everything?
Yes
Is there anything that he can't do if he wants to?
No
Do you want people to be happy?
Yes
Do you want people not to suffer?
Yes
Do you want to cure cancer?
Yes
If you could cure cancer today would you do it?
Yes
Then why do you want to cure cancer when your god who can cure cancer right this second does not want to?
Because he does not want to get rid of it
But you do
Yes
Does that mean you are better then god?
No
Why not?
Because I am not holy
What is holy?
I don't like this conversation *leaving*


Did you see what just happen? Kindness is sacrificed for an idea.
This is why I think that getting rid of superstitions will make world a better place. Because the kindness not only does not depend on it but is often contained by these kinds of ideas.
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25-02-2014, 02:11 AM
RE: People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
This seems to be an extension to the problem of evil.

The problem of evil goes like this. (Quoting from another site. Not my words)
1.God exists.
2.God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3.An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4.An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5.An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6.A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7.If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8.Evil exists (logical contradiction).

People who fail to see this problem and keep believing in god are not only sacrificing kindness (like you explained) but they are actually sacrificing themselves, their possible potential to try and cure cancer is subconsciously suppressed because of this false hope that god exists and he will resolve every problem faced by mankind.

This is just like hoping to pass in an exam without studying. Praying for success when hard work only is the correct option.
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25-02-2014, 02:15 AM
RE: People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
Yeah I did read wikipedia to^^
Thing is why do they want to do what god does not. Shouldn't they try to be more like god they like so much?
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25-02-2014, 02:44 AM
Re: RE: People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
(25-02-2014 02:15 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Yeah I did read wikipedia to^^
Thing is why do they want to do what god does not. Shouldn't they try to be more like god they like so much?

Haha.. Yeah.. You are absolutely right. But if they have had the ability to think logically and the courage to follow the results of their thinking, wouldn't they be atheists by now?

From my personal experience no one has ever argued with me successfully on this matter. On a logical or philosophical level I mean. They tend to resort to "we are humans and we are imperfect. God is perfect so whatever he does is for our own good. I wish I can understand god better but that's just not possible". Or they just leave like you said.

But on a more logical level, their answer can be on the lines of Plantinga's free will defence. Don't you think? But I have never seen anyone using that argument.

Anyways.. I agree with you there. There is a logical mismatch which they can't see or choose to ignore.
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25-02-2014, 02:46 AM
RE: People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
(25-02-2014 02:44 AM)lamexcuses Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 02:15 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Yeah I did read wikipedia to^^
Thing is why do they want to do what god does not. Shouldn't they try to be more like god they like so much?

Haha.. Yeah.. You are absolutely right. But if they have had the ability to think logically and the courage to follow the results of their thinking, wouldn't they be atheists by now?

From my personal experience no one has ever argued with me successfully on this matter. On a logical or philosophical level I mean. They tend to resort to "we are humans and we are imperfect. God is perfect so whatever he does is for our own good. I wish I can understand god better but that's just not possible". Or they just leave like you said.

But on a more logical level, their answer can be on the lines of Plantinga's free will defence. Don't you think? But I have never seen anyone using that argument.

Anyways.. I agree with you there. There is a logical mismatch which they can't see or choose to ignore.
The free will defense addresses god not stopping humans from fucking with other humans. It does not address cancer.
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25-02-2014, 02:50 AM
Re: RE: People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
Quote:The free will defense addresses god not stopping humans from fucking with other humans. It does not address cancer.

Yes.. It does not address any natural evil. There is a logical mismatch which they fail to see.
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25-02-2014, 02:51 AM
RE: People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
And even with humans fucking with other humans. God designed world in such a way that some humans are more probable to fuck with other humans then others. And some people have less power to defend themselves from injustice then others.

Why does rape victim not have enough strength to defend him/herself from the attacker? There is no free will in that situation on the part of the victim. Platingas defense fails.

If god wanted he could design world in such a way that everybody will be capable to protect himself from harm of others. If somebody uses his free will to cause me harm I should have free will to say no to that. In this world apparently it is often not the case.
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25-02-2014, 07:35 AM
RE: People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
(25-02-2014 02:50 AM)lamexcuses Wrote:  
Quote:The free will defense addresses god not stopping humans from fucking with other humans. It does not address cancer.

Yes.. It does not address any natural evil. There is a logical mismatch which they fail to see.

You'd think that, and then you'd run into someone who blames all of that other stuff on the fall or some crap. I've talked to people who believe there was no cancer before original sin, and now we're not pure or something, so... I guess free will gives us cancer?

It's really weird.
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25-02-2014, 07:45 AM
RE: People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
(25-02-2014 07:35 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 02:50 AM)lamexcuses Wrote:  Yes.. It does not address any natural evil. There is a logical mismatch which they fail to see.

You'd think that, and then you'd run into someone who blames all of that other stuff on the fall or some crap. I've talked to people who believe there was no cancer before original sin, and now we're not pure or something, so... I guess free will gives us cancer?

It's really weird.

Reminds me of the Ham/Nye debate.

"So.. Fish have diseases because Adam sinned?"

Yeah, it's weird.
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25-02-2014, 07:48 AM
RE: People sacrifice kindness and humanity for ideas
(25-02-2014 12:12 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Another conversation.

Do you believe in god?
Yes
Did he create everything?
Yes
Is there anything that he can't do if he wants to?
No
Do you want people to be happy?
Yes
Do you want people not to suffer?
Yes
Do you want to cure cancer?
Yes
If you could cure cancer today would you do it?
Yes
Then why do you want to cure cancer when your god who can cure cancer right this second does not want to?
Because he does not want to get rid of it
But you do
Yes
Does that mean you are better then god?
No
Why not?
Because I am not holy
What is holy?
I don't like this conversation *leaving*


Did you see what just happen? Kindness is sacrificed for an idea.
This is why I think that getting rid of superstitions will make world a better place. Because the kindness not only does not depend on it but is often contained by these kinds of ideas.

It is astounding and sad, that the people who make invisible sky hero claims don't understand that they have better morals than the god they worship.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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