People think it's real? This can't be real!
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31-01-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: People think it's real? This can't be real!
The people of the Earth. You can stretch your statistics but we're missing the point. I'll help you and say that 30% of mankind through all history unto today are Atheists, okay?
What other delusion have 70% of people ascribed to for millennia in the face of the evidence? And if there is all that evidence, how can we trust anyone, when man is overwhelmingly deluded?
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31-01-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: People think it's real? This can't be real!
Consider Soooo, you are stating that human kind is overwhelming deluded and are willingly manipulating statistics as proof of this?

Probably should have left well enough alone, there PJ. Wink

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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31-01-2013, 03:44 PM
RE: People think it's real? This can't be real!
(31-01-2013 03:41 PM)kim Wrote:  Consider Soooo, you are stating that human kind is overwhelming deluded and are willingly manipulating statistics as proof of this?

Probably should have left well enough alone, there PJ. Wink
No, I'm stating the Atheist view is man is overwhelmingly deluded. And Atheists like to inflate the numbers as to who is Atheist so I'll go to a hypothetical 70%. Smile
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31-01-2013, 03:47 PM
RE: People think it's real? This can't be real!
(31-01-2013 01:31 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  For a great paradigm shift to occur takes time and sometimes, effort. When science presents new evidence for say, a round Earth, it took (most of) the world some time, some decades, to buck the tide of some scientists and the church and say, "Everyone knows the Earth is round."


Yet my Atheist friends say there has never been a God and there has been no evidence for God in any section of human history. They might also say there is evidence
there is not a God. So, we have 97% of humanity for all history holding an historic belief in a non-scientific delusion.


Can anyone name another delusion that the vast majority of people persist with in belief
despite the evidence against it for centuries? And if man is that delusional as a whole, can anyone trust anyone's statement on anything?


You should learn some psychology, especially evolutionary psychology.

The human mind has evolved to solve problems, and among the evolved tools are pattern-seeking and intentionality or agenticity.

The human mind seeks to find patterns and intentions in the world. These have great value for survivability, but can misfire. Does that tiger intend to eat me? Are those shadows in the grass a tiger?
If you think the tiger intends to eat you, you likely make the right choice to survive and reproduce.
If you choose to interpret the pattern of shadows as a tiger then, even if you are wrong, you are likely to survive and reproduce.

So our brains have evolved to leap to the conclusion that there are agents with intentionality, that patterns have meaning, even when they don't.
Our ancestors did this and survived. Those who didn't aren't our ancestors.

Belief in spirits and gods is a direct result, a byproduct of these mind-gadgets that evolution produced.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-01-2013, 03:52 PM
RE: People think it's real? This can't be real!
Good point. We see patterns. Jesus knows this and wrote the Bible using patterns and codes in patterns. Thanks for another reason to trust Him!

Now, perhaps, answer these two questions:

Can anyone name another delusion that the vast majority of people persist with in belief despite the evidence against it for centuries? And if man is that delusional as a whole, can anyone trust anyone's statement on anything?
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31-01-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: People think it's real? This can't be real!
(31-01-2013 03:52 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Good point. We see patterns. Jesus knows this and wrote the Bible using patterns and codes in patterns. Thanks for another reason to trust Him!

Now, perhaps, answer these two questions:

Can anyone name another delusion that the vast majority of people persist with in belief despite the evidence against it for centuries? And if man is that delusional as a whole, can anyone trust anyone's statement on anything?


Jesus wrote the Bible? Really? You are truly ignorant.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-01-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: People think it's real? This can't be real!
Jebus didn't write anything. No scholar on Earth says Jebus wrote the Bible. What are you smoking ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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31-01-2013, 03:58 PM
RE: People think it's real? This can't be real!
(31-01-2013 01:31 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  For a great paradigm shift to occur takes time and sometimes, effort. When science presents new evidence for say, a round Earth, it took (most of) the world some time, some decades, to buck the tide of some scientists and the church and say, "Everyone knows the Earth is round."


Yet my Atheist friends say there has never been a God and there has been no evidence for God in any section of human history. They might also say there is evidence
there is not a God. So, we have 97% of humanity for all history holding an historic belief in a non-scientific delusion.


Can anyone name another delusion that the vast majority of people persist with in belief
despite the evidence against it for centuries? And if man is that delusional as a whole, can anyone trust anyone's statement on anything?
You say that like it's all the same, but it's not. Different people believe in different gods. Specific religions have been around for different lengths of time. Some have already died out; others are relatively new. No concept of god covers all believers in any god or even close. It's like saying "I know aids exists and as evidence has anything else been around as long as sickness?" Sickness and aids are clearly not the same thing.

Is there anything comparable to a delusion of a specific god? Aseptic Skeptic mentioned a few. As time goes on and our knowledge increases, it is less and less likely that comparably false beliefs will continue. Finally, religion fills emotional needs for answers to difficult questions, for calming fears, for comfort and guidance, and for all kinds of other things. That's why it tends to be stronger than other false beliefs. There it is, rationally explained, without the irrational "evidence for God's existence" inference.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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31-01-2013, 04:17 PM
RE: People think it's real? This can't be real!
For millennia, men believed in a geocentric universe, where the entire universe revolved around the earth. Some people, especially those who did not develop sea travel, believed that the earth is flat. Many people, for the majority of the history of mankind, believed that the earth is young, with a life measured in the thousands of years, not billions.

Humans are fallible. Which is why, until the advent of science, many people were religious and many religions were based on similar foundations.

But science is less fallible than simple human judgement. Before science, one might say, "I believe X!" And it ended there. That was religion.

Now we can say, "I believe X. I will compare X to what we observe in reality, and make predictions based on X and compare those predictions to reality. Oh, whoops! X is wrong. But with new information, I believe Y. I will compare Y to what we observe in reality, and make predictions based on Y and compare those predictions to reality. Looks like Y is consistent with reality! Now I'll go seek out a bunch of other smart people and have them check my work to see if I made any mistakes!"

Human intuition is fallible and can lead to delusion. That is why we have developed a system, a method, for testing our intuitions against reality so as to defeat delusion and arrive at an understanding of reality which is closer to the truth. This is science. And science is killing religion.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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31-01-2013, 04:26 PM
RE: People think it's real? This can't be real!
(31-01-2013 03:44 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  No, I'm stating the Atheist view is man is overwhelmingly deluded. And Atheists like to inflate the numbers as to who is Atheist so I'll go to a hypothetical 70%. Smile

Mmm... probably... NOT. How 'bout: the atheist view might be that christians could be overwhelmingly deluded. And it looks like part of that delusion insists that atheists like to inflate the numbers while another part of that delusion appears to favor insularity. Wink

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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