Perfection and Morality
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06-07-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: Perfection and Morality
(06-07-2014 12:47 PM)intellectual_warrior Wrote:  
(06-07-2014 12:40 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Disagree here. If this were the case then a) the trait would not have evolved and b) without empathy the human race would not have got this far.

I can get on board with this. However, simply because we may have evolved via empathy as you mention here, that doesn't mean people in our modern times and cultures always adhere to said empathy. Looking closer, I see this is actually the root of my original assertion.
Of course they don't always adhere to it - that's where free-will comes in. I think the modern times argument is a bit weak because the time-frame you're looking at for the change is a nanosecond in evolutionary terms...
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08-07-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: Perfection and Morality
Come back to this thread after a hiatus and already the woo has begun. Goddammit!

Crazy you say?
Wouldn't a crazy man ask another man if he was crazy?! Hobo
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09-07-2014, 10:52 AM
RE: Perfection and Morality
(01-07-2014 05:37 PM)Rinpoche Wrote:  I know a living Buddha, he's my master. He is a doctor in theology. He never teaches anything that we can't find out for ourselves, but the Buddhist Perfection is really the inherent perfection of the universe. My master, being a Buddha, has embraced that perfection. So, morally, everything he does is morally good because he is perfect.
It's interesting that your perfect living Buddha would need to earn a doctorate in theology. Drinking Beverage

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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02-08-2014, 01:45 AM
RE: Perfection and Morality
(01-07-2014 05:51 PM)Rinpoche Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 05:48 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  That doesn't necessarily follow - he is human and thus imperfect and as flawed as anybody else. For someone who claims in your opening post to not believe in any gods I don't see how you can then say what you've said on this thread...

What about him being perfect makes him a God? Isn't that the point of the thread? Do you know about Buddhism?

Buddhism tends to be vague about perfection.
In particular the concept of Annata-- (Non- self) creates even more difficulty.

As for existential perfection:who/what would determine it?
Any such defining, beyond our cognitive abilities, cannot be claimed as perfect.
Such would necessarily involve a different mode of knowing.
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02-08-2014, 02:37 AM (This post was last modified: 02-08-2014 03:14 AM by Stevil.)
RE: Perfection and Morality
I think these religious folk want to be perfect. They want the world to be perfect. So god is an imaginary perfect being (human-like) that becomes an unachievable goal "to be god-like" but is a goal none the less.

Of course this is a problem because there is no such thing as perfection. There is no such thing as a perfect human, we are all genetic deviations, having evolved over billions of years with no clear demarcation along our evolutionary state. Every parent giving birth to the same species...
We are a diverse species having developed various cultures, religions, social structures, ideologies etc.
Those that have a goal of perfect society, want to force their own ideologies onto a diverse society and make people conform. It's a very aggressive approach and leads to much conflict and bloodshed.

The leaders of religious organisations know perfection is unattainable and unknowable and they use it to their advantage. They convince their followers that they are imperfect, fallen and sinful and to not trust themselves to know perfection (good) from imperfection (bad). And in return the followers develop a dependancy paying "good" money to these organisations for advice on how to make decisions and for absolution of their guilt (instilled by said organisations, regarding being imperfect, fallen, sinful and unworthy)
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03-08-2014, 12:22 PM
RE: Perfection and Morality
(01-07-2014 05:37 PM)Rinpoche Wrote:  So, morally, everything he does is morally good because he is perfect.

This is equivalent to claiming that a perfect railroad locomotive by its perfection must necessarily also be a perfect submarine. It would certainly submerge efficiently.
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