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Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
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07-01-2016, 04:21 PM
RE: Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
(07-01-2016 04:10 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(07-01-2016 03:48 PM)bemore Wrote:  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busine...67215.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/...94001.html

[Image: Aaron_Russo_with_Nicholas_Rockefeller.jpg]

Its happening anyway, wether russo spoke the truth or not.

If you change the entire thesis, then yes. Cashless society (read: vague term, but glossing as electronic means greatly preferred, which, y'know, has pretty much already happened) is not the same thing as ZOMG GOVERNMENTS WILL FORCE MICROCHIPS INTO YOUR CHILDRENS. Come the fuck on.

Stop trying to fucking force your beliefs onto me by attempting to belittle me. Im not asking you or anybody to believe what im saying. Im just putting it out there. Ive long ago learned that you cant sway peoples opinions and whilst it may bring you comfort or re-enforce your own belief that nobody would do anything like this, I am open minded either way. I dont go around preaching my version of reality and what I see as "truth" when in reality none of us fucking know everything.

Im just putting it out there, they are not my beliefs. Beliefs are transient, they come and go and are adapted with knowledge and experience.

I dont talk about this shit anymore because its fucking pointless. I only mention things ive seen, read and watched as Adrianime raised the subject. Not me.

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07-01-2016, 04:25 PM
RE: Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
(07-01-2016 04:13 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Who is the government? Politicians. Why would you trust them, they are all strangers and they do not have a trust inducing record. Beside, what legitimate reason would they need to track your whereabouts?

I did add/edit something else to my post but evidently not fast enough. Please take a look at the revised.
Well, they might be strangers, but they are strangers directly associated with the governing body of my nation. If I didn't have some degree of trust in the government I would probably move to a different country.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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07-01-2016, 04:26 PM
RE: Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
(07-01-2016 04:21 PM)bemore Wrote:  ..as Adrianime raised the subject. Not me.
That's right! Cool

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07-01-2016, 04:36 PM
RE: Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
(07-01-2016 04:19 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(07-01-2016 04:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Except, technically, it is, albeit only if you also think 'property' is a thing...


That's not something unique to "governments" as a (unnecessarily reified?) class, though. That's an occupational hazard of "groups of human beings".

True but the criteria here is "government tagged". They are the group with which he says will have the power. I say they haven't earned it and that was my argument as to why.

Conceptually it's no more an inherently slippery slope than requiring a license to operate motor vehicles is...

On this particular case (RFID, which is an incredibly simplistic technology), I happen to think a reasonable implementation is impossible. But without specifics there are no real pros and cons to even consider.

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07-01-2016, 04:39 PM
RE: Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
(07-01-2016 04:25 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(07-01-2016 04:13 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Who is the government? Politicians. Why would you trust them, they are all strangers and they do not have a trust inducing record. Beside, what legitimate reason would they need to track your whereabouts?

I did add/edit something else to my post but evidently not fast enough. Please take a look at the revised.
Well, they might be strangers, but they are strangers directly associated with the governing body of my nation. If I didn't have some degree of trust in the government I would probably move to a different country.

Exactly. Your degree of trust is clearly much higher than mine. Smile

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07-01-2016, 04:39 PM
RE: Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
(07-01-2016 04:21 PM)bemore Wrote:  Stop trying to fucking force your beliefs onto me by attempting to belittle me. Im not asking you or anybody to believe what im saying. Im just putting it out there.

And then using 'B' to half-heartedly support an entirely different 'A'. That's the part I find odd.

"Fewer people conduct business with cash" does not equal "secret Rockefeller plot to microchip everybody". Even to you. Right?

(07-01-2016 04:21 PM)bemore Wrote:  Ive long ago learned that you cant sway peoples opinions..

I can trivially disprove that by pointing to the people here who used to be theists. Though I don't think it's really pertinent either way.

(07-01-2016 04:21 PM)bemore Wrote:  ... and whilst it may bring you comfort or re-enforce your own belief that nobody would do anything like this...

I just wanted to know what you actually meant by "this"; I can do without the facile psychoanalysis.

(07-01-2016 04:21 PM)bemore Wrote:  I am open minded either way. I dont go around preaching my version of reality and what I see as "truth" when in reality none of us fucking know everything.

Good for you?

I mean, of course nobody knows everything - but there is only one actual common reality, and trying to get closer to it is something I find personally important to me.

(07-01-2016 04:21 PM)bemore Wrote:  Im just putting it out there, they are not my beliefs. Beliefs are transient, they come and go and are adapted with knowledge and experience.

Is "just putting it out there" the new "just asking questions"? Hmm...

If you don't support something and can't back it up, why even present it? That's just a rhetorical question in general.

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07-01-2016, 04:40 PM
RE: Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
(07-01-2016 04:36 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(07-01-2016 04:19 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  True but the criteria here is "government tagged". They are the group with which he says will have the power. I say they haven't earned it and that was my argument as to why.

Conceptually it's no more an inherently slippery slope than requiring a license to operate motor vehicles is...

On this particular case (RFID, which is an incredibly simplistic technology), I happen to think a reasonable implementation is impossible. But without specifics there are no real pros and cons to even consider.

I disagree. Tagging a vehicle is not tagging a person and a vehicle is not a person and does not have rights. I am and do.

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07-01-2016, 04:45 PM
RE: Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
(07-01-2016 04:39 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Is "just putting it out there" the new "just asking questions"? Hmm...

If you don't support something and can't back it up, why even present it? That's just a rhetorical question in general.
I often bring up points I don't agree with just to see what people say about them. Big Grin

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07-01-2016, 04:46 PM
RE: Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
(07-01-2016 04:40 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(07-01-2016 04:36 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Conceptually it's no more an inherently slippery slope than requiring a license to operate motor vehicles is...

On this particular case (RFID, which is an incredibly simplistic technology), I happen to think a reasonable implementation is impossible. But without specifics there are no real pros and cons to even consider.

I disagree. Tagging a vehicle is not tagging a person and a vehicle is not a person and does not have rights. I am and do.

Things like a birth certificate, driver's license, social insurance number, passport, etc are already associated with you, the unique human being.

Thought experiment:
If a biometric device existed which would store and retrieve any other personal records or information, but operated solely at the discretion of the host, would you be opposed to that? As in, selectively engage whenver asked to present id or complete electronic payment or whatever. We're all just talking vague hypotheticals anyway, so what about that level of security?

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07-01-2016, 04:47 PM
RE: Personal Identification Implants. OK to require?
(07-01-2016 04:45 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(07-01-2016 04:39 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Is "just putting it out there" the new "just asking questions"? Hmm...

If you don't support something and can't back it up, why even present it? That's just a rhetorical question in general.
I often bring up points I don't agree with just to see what people say about them. Big Grin

Yes, of course.

But there's a difference between "consider X for the sake of discussion" and "allegedly Y is entirely real".

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