Personal experience argument
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-07-2015, 04:13 PM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2015 04:21 PM by Simon Moon.)
RE: Personal experience argument
(13-07-2015 01:21 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

A number of interesting issues were raised herein.

First, we are all aware of how archaeology works. What I think is being discounted here unfairly is the depths of sand covering shifting deserts, and the length and breadth of the regions to search to find Exodus remains. Clearly in Exodus short-several day journeys were taken to sites where the Israelites would tent for months or years at a time. Once you can dot all those spots on the desert map--then you can tell the archaeologists where to search to find either evidence or a lack of it. The line of argument--
"it's a small desert and easy to sift/dig" is like saying "it was a small ocean that airplane crashed into, we'll just go ahead and find the missing plane and bodies today". Of course, this whole canard of Exodus archaeology argument assumes the Israelites walked around leaving their stuff all over the place--when we know from the Bible that not one spoon of the tabernacle implements, and not one extra piece of manna was to be left sitting around!

Second, Ezekiel prophesied a number of years of captivity. After, in modern times, skeptics notes the Ezekiel prophecy was unfulfilled. Then, some Christians notes the seven times factor of prophecy, did the multiplication and came up with not only a year in the Gentile calendar but a DAY--May 15, 1948. Something special (actually fulfilling ten Bible prophecies if not more) happened on May 15, 1948. Do you know what happened on that date? Google it, perhaps.

"Q".

According to Numbers 1:45-46, 600,000 men over the age of 20 left Egypt on foot. There would be about the same number of women. Then there are the children, the livestock, the carts, belongings, etc.

That alone is over 1.2 million people.

And this number is only Hebrews. What about the 'mixed multitudes'? How many more were they?

Lets not even consider that there is zero evidence that that many Hebrews ever lived in Egypt, or entered into Israel.

But there is no way that you march that many people around a desert for 40 years without finding archaeological remnants. There'd be graves, broken carts, refuse, shrines, pottery etc.

Oh, and by the way, the Sinai does not even make it onto the list of the 25 largest deserts in the world. And archaeologists find remnants of short term camps in much bigger deserts, from much smaller tribes all the time.

And you also seem to think that the Sinai is nothing but shifting sand, Which is truly ridiculous. The majority of the Sinai looks more like this -

[Image: Jebel-Berqa-view.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Simon Moon's post
13-07-2015, 04:17 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
It's a made up story.

It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

But, it does take a person with a certain - shall we say "innocence" -- to believe it.....


..

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like onlinebiker's post
13-07-2015, 04:49 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
It's very simple. We have two "competing" proposals:

Proposal One: Some time in the 14th century BCE, roughly 1 Million persons for whom we have no written record of existence in the highly-literate Empire of Egypt left Goshen, Egypt after a successful (yet oddly unrecorded) series of major catastrophies that struck Egypt for keeping them, then walked 200 miles southeast through the major population-areas of Egypt to reach even the northernmost tip of the Red Sea, at which point they turned east and crossed a parted-water pathway through which the chariots of the Egyptian Army pursued them while clustered en masse (for some unspecified, unnecessary tactical reason) in order to be drowned, still without anyone recording this awful debacle despite frequently recording military disasters in stone, spent 40 years wandering the Sinai peninsula without leaving a trace, then went through the equally-populated (but non-Egyptian) region southeast of Canaan to turn north and west and looping back into Egyptian-controlled territory to begin conquering Egyptian-held cities, without leaving evidence of this conquest or having it mentioned by the same Egyptians (except the Amarna letter, a request for reinforcements against tribal warriors attacking local Canaanite-Egyptian cities, which oddly the Egyptian governor does not describe as the escaped slaves, but as random nomads/bandits called habiru, a term used throughout the region, from Hattusa to Babylon to Cairo to Nineveh, but not in reference to the Hebrew people...they're just similar-sounding in English... reinforcements which arrived and held on to those Egyptian cities in Canaan), and despite all this made up an Israelite Kingdom which would hold a region in which the two empires battling over the region at the time (Egypt and Hatti) would not mention.

OR

Proposal Two: It's a story made up between the Assyrian conquest and the Exile, or during the Exile, in order to provide a collective identity and Origin Story for the disparate people who had become the Judean/Jewish people of that era, doing the best they can but not aware of the full history of Egypt, the Hittites/Hatti, or the Canaan region 700+ years prior.

Maybe if I wrote Proposal Two on a Napkin?
[Image: napkin-religion.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
13-07-2015, 05:05 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
And, um, if the whole point of the end of the judgement was Israel returning from the exile, why would the time they spent in the Holy Land between Babylon and Rome's invasion count against the years of judgement remaining? Shouldn't there be more years on the timer?

... also, where did the exact year of the Babylonian exile come from? wtf?

Also, even if neither of those things were issues, I would deduct points for the fact that people who believe in this stuff were part of the REASON for the modern nation of Israel being established when it was established.

Also, anyone else here notice how Q keeps abandoning sinking ships just as fast as he can invent new leaky ships to escape to?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Reltzik's post
14-07-2015, 10:48 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
Exactly 2,485.479 years from 536 B.C. is the prophetic date of May 15, 1948. On this date, Israel became a nation just as promised in the Bible (Isaiah 66:8). --A specific day, not a year, in prophecy.

As exciting a prophecy as that of the book of Daniel, predicting the Messiah would die for sin on Passover, 29 AD.

There are reasons to believe in the Exodus:

http://worldview3.50webs.com/exodus.html

http://nypost.com/2014/04/09/archaeologi...rom-egypt/

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-07-2015, 10:57 AM (This post was last modified: 14-07-2015 11:00 AM by jennybee.)
RE: Personal experience argument
(14-07-2015 10:48 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Exactly 2,485.479 years from 536 B.C. is the prophetic date of May 15, 1948. On this date, Israel became a nation just as promised in the Bible (Isaiah 66:8). --A specific day, not a year, in prophecy.

As exciting a prophecy as that of the book of Daniel, predicting the Messiah would die for sin on Passover, 29 AD.

There are reasons to believe in the Exodus:

http://worldview3.50webs.com/exodus.html

http://nypost.com/2014/04/09/archaeologi...rom-egypt/


You can't get an "exact" date from 536 BCE when you have no starting day/month in 536 BCE. Also you could be easily justified in picking any "start" date between 598 BCE and 587 BCE to "make the math work." Additionally, 538 BCE would be a more logical choice (instead of 536 BCE) since that is when the exile officially ended. Jeffreys clearly played with numbers and dates to make his math work.

http://www.britannica.com/event/Babylonian-Exile

**Daniel did not predict Jesus--again more twisting of passages.



Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like jennybee's post
14-07-2015, 01:50 PM (This post was last modified: 14-07-2015 02:58 PM by jennybee.)
RE: Personal experience argument
Isaiah 66 is referring to the exiled Israelites return from Babylon and not to 1948 Israel. From the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges Commentary:

"The sudden repopulation of the city by her children. The figure is taken from ch. Isaiah 49:17-21, Isaiah 54:1; the fact set forth being the instantaneous return of the exiled Israelites, by which, without effort, the poor and struggling Jewish community becomes at once a great nation."

Third Isaiah talks about the restoration after Babylonian captivity.

Also, how much trust are you going to put in a guy who believed God told him to walk around nekkid for three years:

Isaiah 20:

"In the year the general sent by Sargon, king of Assyria, came to Ashdod, fought against it, and captured it—at that time the Lord had spoken through Isaiah, the son of Amoz: Go and take off the sackcloth from your waist, and remove the sandals from your feet. This he did, walking naked and barefoot. Then the Lord said: Just as my servant Isaiah has gone naked and barefoot for three years as a sign and portent against Egypt and Ethiopia, so shall the king of Assyria lead away captives from Egypt, and exiles from Ethiopia, young and old, naked and barefoot, with buttocks uncovered, the shame of Egypt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jennybee's post
15-07-2015, 10:02 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
I didn't quote Jeffries. Jeffries cites the diaspora brought in the spring season. He calculated a date of 1948.4 AD - .4 being admirably close to May 15.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-07-2015, 10:02 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(14-07-2015 01:50 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Isaiah 66 is referring to the exiled Israelites return from Babylon and not to 1948 Israel. From the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges Commentary:

"The sudden repopulation of the city by her children. The figure is taken from ch. Isaiah 49:17-21, Isaiah 54:1; the fact set forth being the instantaneous return of the exiled Israelites, by which, without effort, the poor and struggling Jewish community becomes at once a great nation."

Third Isaiah talks about the restoration after Babylonian captivity.

Also, how much trust are you going to put in a guy who believed God told him to walk around nekkid for three years:

Isaiah 20:

"In the year the general sent by Sargon, king of Assyria, came to Ashdod, fought against it, and captured it—at that time the Lord had spoken through Isaiah, the son of Amoz: Go and take off the sackcloth from your waist, and remove the sandals from your feet. This he did, walking naked and barefoot. Then the Lord said: Just as my servant Isaiah has gone naked and barefoot for three years as a sign and portent against Egypt and Ethiopia, so shall the king of Assyria lead away captives from Egypt, and exiles from Ethiopia, young and old, naked and barefoot, with buttocks uncovered, the shame of Egypt."

I don't understand. I was speaking of prophecies of the Penteteuch and Ezekiel predicting May 15, 1948 and not Isaiah's prophecies.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-07-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(15-07-2015 10:02 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(14-07-2015 01:50 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Isaiah 66 is referring to the exiled Israelites return from Babylon and not to 1948 Israel. From the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges Commentary:

"The sudden repopulation of the city by her children. The figure is taken from ch. Isaiah 49:17-21, Isaiah 54:1; the fact set forth being the instantaneous return of the exiled Israelites, by which, without effort, the poor and struggling Jewish community becomes at once a great nation."

Third Isaiah talks about the restoration after Babylonian captivity.

Also, how much trust are you going to put in a guy who believed God told him to walk around nekkid for three years:

Isaiah 20:

"In the year the general sent by Sargon, king of Assyria, came to Ashdod, fought against it, and captured it—at that time the Lord had spoken through Isaiah, the son of Amoz: Go and take off the sackcloth from your waist, and remove the sandals from your feet. This he did, walking naked and barefoot. Then the Lord said: Just as my servant Isaiah has gone naked and barefoot for three years as a sign and portent against Egypt and Ethiopia, so shall the king of Assyria lead away captives from Egypt, and exiles from Ethiopia, young and old, naked and barefoot, with buttocks uncovered, the shame of Egypt."

I don't understand. I was speaking of prophecies of the Penteteuch and Ezekiel predicting May 15, 1948 and not Isaiah's prophecies.

You mentioned Isaiah 66 in your previous post...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: