Personal experience argument
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20-07-2015, 10:28 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
Tell you what. If you want to really broaden your perspective you should check out "rise resolution".

They don't really align with my beliefs exactly but they are good people with great ideas, positive atitudes and a willingness to understand. They are true free thinkers. They could use any attention anyone is willing to give. I kindly ask that any who venture there be polite and curtious as they surely will be to you.
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20-07-2015, 10:30 PM (This post was last modified: 20-07-2015 10:35 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Personal experience argument
(20-07-2015 10:21 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  ClydeLee,
Good can be found by anyone actively seeking it. It is accompanied by positive emotion only. It is always simple and direct and selfless. Bad is manipulative it's nature. It is in all negative or hurtfull thought regardless of who or what it affects. It hides and poses as good through selfishness. It is elusive and clings to all it can. In thought it is always second or third and is only justifiable when seen with selfish eyes. It can trick, and bend your very core. It can consume and blind. Any and all bad thought will be accompanied by negative emotions to those who are aware of there inner most workings. I would be more than happy to go into further detail in any direction you like. I know my words confuse, but through conversation with patience we will reach understanding.

You do understand you are speaking in loose generic language which gives no context to anything? Actually evil or badness isn't elusive. It's simply find-able if you define it and actually view things in a explainable context.

Do you think there is absolute Good and Absolute Evil and that a god type being has created them? or just the Good? When you examine and answer things in sensible fields of discussion that have spend centuries trying to define ideas, they can be very easily defined.

You really need to go back to overthinking.. Overthink EVERYTHING you think you have thought and know. If you think you know or feel something, try reexamining it from any perspective that may linger out there. You seem to have an immense confidence in undefined assumptions. I see that riseresolution and looking at the philosophy section I see your thread of "mans law" and you proclaim it's not "right" law. What's "Right?" What makes you think there is a right? Why do you conclude there is a right? How do you define right or where does right come from... there is far too much assumption in your view to take it without strong questioning.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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20-07-2015, 10:38 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
Good is everywhere. Bad is only through humans and free will. There is one source for all things. Evil was never meant to be. Through free will we have learned evil. It is only observable here on earth.
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20-07-2015, 10:41 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
Always with the negative waves, Moriarti! Always with the negative waves.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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20-07-2015, 10:49 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(20-07-2015 09:45 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  sons were the blood of their fathers, and like there fathers would sin a lot
Daughters are also the blood of their fathers. Facepalm

You are still justifying the rape, genocide, and enslavement as a morally good thing to do based on the declarations of those who committed the rape, the genocide, and the enslaving. You are arguing from a position of pro-genocide. This is wrong, very very wrong and not in anyway "positive".

You have been asked to prove that they were evil and needed to be killed. You have not done that.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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20-07-2015, 10:51 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(20-07-2015 10:38 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Good is everywhere. Bad is only through humans and free will. There is one source for all things. Evil was never meant to be. Through free will we have learned evil. It is only observable here on earth.

Matter is everywhere or Energy is everywhere. People could make a statement like that and it holds as much weight. These things you say, you do realize they lack rational contingency right? They are merely emotionally charged statements that are horribly ill defined for discussion to go anywhere. You are going to get nowhere on a board like this trying to communicate this way.

All you do is make a series of assertions with no support. For breaking it down, all you do is create unanswered questions. Not that you SHOULD think you know how to answer them but this is the easily drawn up series of great many questions your unsupported assertions create:

How do you know good is everywhere? What caused free will? What defines free will? How do you know you actually have free will? How do you know there is one source for things? what is the source for things? Why was Evil never meant to be? If that is so, why was free will given if it generated evil? Why would something not meant to be be created allowing something to be? How do you know it is only with Humans? How do you know it's only on Earth? Are astronauts on the ISS right this moment unable to observe evil? Were ones who traveled further like to the moon incapable of observing or experiencing evil? How do you know there is not other life capable of evil elsewhere in the universe?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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20-07-2015, 11:01 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(20-07-2015 10:38 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  There is one source for all things. Evil was never meant to be.

Right so if there is one source for everything that means it's also the source of evil seeing as how evil exists and it's the source for all things.

It was never meant to be? Did god not know that evil would come about as a result of free will before he made free will? Or before he made evil? Was he unable or unwilling to create a system of free will that would not lead to evil? Was he incompetent or malicious? If evil was never meant to be why would he create it? Why would he create a reality where evil even had a chance to arise instead of one where it does not but free will still exists?
If evil is not meant to be but free will is meant to be and he, being all knowing apparently, knew that the end result of free will would be some evil actions then is not by virtue of his knowing ahead of time that evil would come into existence on account of his creation of free will, to which evil is directly tied according to you, a sign that evil was meant to exist in the exact same way as free will was?

Your nonsense does not make any sense, it's self contradictory.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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20-07-2015, 11:39 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
God sent others to give us knowledge. This knowledge was to only pertain to the method of our ascension. Technically yes h and knew free will would bring evil and pain. He left it up to us to find and do away with evil in order to truely advance. Other worldly beings were to give us our knowledge. These beings were spiritual in form and had already ascended to a near pure state. However they knew that with the knowledge they were to give us we too would ascend to there heights. The grew jealous of this. The knowledge of evil which is only observable at this time by us here on earth was basically sabotage. These beings sinned with us, showing us things that weren't benificial to our ascension. Through there sin with us he'll was created here on earth. Through our sin with them all pain and suffering was created as was sin in general.
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20-07-2015, 11:45 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
My bugger, all your stuff is just assertion after assertion. You've shown a propensity for delusion, why would I suddenly trust that you've got it right? God isn't a pleasant fellow if I read the bible, so why would I worship a being like that? More to the point why would you? Even if I take the existence of God as proven he's just not a nice guy. In my opinion the only thing for a human who cares about ethics to do in that situation is to have nothing to do with such a vile deity.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-07-2015, 12:05 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(20-07-2015 11:39 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  God sent others to give us knowledge. This knowledge was to only pertain to the method of our ascension. Technically yes h and knew free will would bring evil and pain. He left it up to us to find and do away with evil in order to truely advance. Other worldly beings were to give us our knowledge. These beings were spiritual in form and had already ascended to a near pure state. However they knew that with the knowledge they were to give us we too would ascend to there heights. The grew jealous of this. The knowledge of evil which is only observable at this time by us here on earth was basically sabotage. These beings sinned with us, showing us things that weren't benificial to our ascension. Through there sin with us he'll was created here on earth. Through our sin with them all pain and suffering was created as was sin in general.
There is nothing in that incoherent mess that is not an assertion without a grain of supporting evidence to it. You basically just told me a bed time story. A fairy tail. What's more is you seem to be making it up as you go.
I count about 17 explicit statements that are nothing more then your beliefs turned into assertions as well as several other tacit assertions laying beneath the surface. Where is the objective evidence for anything you just said? Can you give me any reason at all that I should believe anything of what you just said is true and accurate recounting of history?
So he knew evil would be introduced to the world even though he didn't mean it to be (implying he didn't have control over his creation while he was creating it) he also designed us to be susceptible to this thing he didn't mean to create. So he creates the sickness, creates us so we will get the sickness when he could easily make us immune at no cost to him or our freewill, but it's our fault we get sick? Well that's fucking stupid.

Your beliefs are STILL nonsensical, poorly thought out, ill formed, juvenile, and self contradicting.

I'd still like you to answer my other question though: was god unable to create a world in which evil could not arise while also maintaining free will or did he simply choose not to? Is he incompetent as a designer or is he simply a malicious one?

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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