Personal experience argument
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21-07-2015, 09:07 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(21-07-2015 08:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 07:21 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The Prophecy ... Ezekiel 4:4-6


"Then God said to Ezekiel,

'Now lie on your left side for 390 days

to show Israel will be punished for 390 years

by captivity and doom.

Each day you lie there represents

a year of punishment ahead for Israel.

Afterwards, turn over and lay on your right side

for 40 days, to signify the years of Judah's punishment.

Each day will represent one year . . .'"

(Ezekiel 4:4-6)





This Is A Mathematical Bible Prophecy . . .

No, it is an absurd forcing of arbitrarily chosen numbers to make a presupposed result.

It is utterly ridiculous, as are you.

Not to mention -- does Q really believe that Ezekiel lay on his side for 390 days?

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

The entire book of Ezekiel makes me think they must have had some good recreational drugs back then.
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21-07-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(21-07-2015 07:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 05:42 AM)julep Wrote:  [I'd still like you to answer my other question though: was god unable to create a world in which evil could not arise while also maintaining free will or did he simply choose not to? Is he incompetent as a designer or is he simply a malicious one?

[waves hand frantically] Pick me, pick me, I know the answer! It's a trick question: god is incompetent and malicious. Smile (and He's picked quite the spokespeople to represent his POV in this thread…)

We should start with the creation itself, is man fallible or infallible? How do you create someone with the ability to do good AND the ability to do evil and have them not do evil while maintaining their free will?

Because if I only choose good or good, I'm perfect. I'm a god.
[/quote]
As stated the only perfect human was Christ. He most definitely is considered God by many people. We are make in a likeness to God in our dominion over earth, and our free will. We are under God in that we will never be his equal for he create us.
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21-07-2015, 09:12 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(21-07-2015 08:35 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 07:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  We should start with the creation itself, is man fallible or infallible? How do you create someone with the ability to do good AND the ability to do evil and have them not do evil while maintaining their free will?

Because if I only choose good or good, I'm perfect. I'm a god.

So Adam was a God until Eve was created?
No. Adam and Eve where without sin which is to say they were without knowledge of good and evil, which is to say that they had no free will prior to attaining knowledge, some of which they weren't to attain at all, hence sin and punishment.
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21-07-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
julep

Good is described as worship of him and obidiance to the right path because these are the only ways to keep bad in check and stay good. It is through vigerois practice and constant reminder, in order to keep evil from creeping in unseen.
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21-07-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(21-07-2015 09:07 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 08:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, it is an absurd forcing of arbitrarily chosen numbers to make a presupposed result.

It is utterly ridiculous, as are you.

Not to mention -- does Q really believe that Ezekiel lay on his side for 390 days?

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

The entire book of Ezekiel makes me think they must have had some good recreational drugs back then.
Shear will through the direction shown to them by God.
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21-07-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(21-07-2015 09:12 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 08:35 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  So Adam was a God until Eve was created?
No. Adam and Eve where without sin which is to say they were without knowledge of good and evil, which is to say that they had no free will prior to attaining knowledge, some of which they weren't to attain at all, hence sin and punishment.


I would think you would find Q has a different theological perspective than you, so you may see you don't view things the way he does... but onto what you're saying.

So Adam having the ability to name all the animals and search for a help meat to do, the other work he got to pick out doing, isn't free will.

You seem to have defined free will to be some concept of purely, the free will to choose "good" or "evil." What is it that draws you to that conclusion? Do you have any neuroscientific understanding of free will questions and debate?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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21-07-2015, 09:46 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(21-07-2015 09:40 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:12 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No. Adam and Eve where without sin which is to say they were without knowledge of good and evil, which is to say that they had no free will prior to attaining knowledge, some of which they weren't to attain at all, hence sin and punishment.


I would think you would find Q has a different theological perspective than you, so you may see you don't view things the way he does... but onto what you're saying.

So Adam having the ability to name all the animals and search for a help meat to do, the other work he got to pick out doing, isn't free will.

You seem to have defined free will to be some concept of purely, the free will to choose "good" or "evil." What is it that draws you to that conclusion? Do you have any neuroscientific understanding of free will questions and debate?
Without free will we would have no choice in our direction past the need to survive and procreate like the rest of the living things that exhibit complex structure and feeling, yet not evil. We are the only beings that have choice through free will. We actually hold the destiny of all creation on earth in our hands.
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21-07-2015, 09:53 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(21-07-2015 09:46 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:40 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I would think you would find Q has a different theological perspective than you, so you may see you don't view things the way he does... but onto what you're saying.

So Adam having the ability to name all the animals and search for a help meat to do, the other work he got to pick out doing, isn't free will.

You seem to have defined free will to be some concept of purely, the free will to choose "good" or "evil." What is it that draws you to that conclusion? Do you have any neuroscientific understanding of free will questions and debate?
Without free will we would have no choice in our direction past the need to survive and procreate like the rest of the living things that exhibit complex structure and feeling, yet not evil. We are the only beings that have choice through free will. We actually hold the destiny of all creation on earth in our hands.

Now you get it, this is exactly the true situation you actually may be finding yourself within. There is no reason to view it with some negativity or deem it insignificant.

So could you answer, what makes you believe Free Will has to be some concept involving "evil?"

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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21-07-2015, 09:53 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(21-07-2015 09:46 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:40 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I would think you would find Q has a different theological perspective than you, so you may see you don't view things the way he does... but onto what you're saying.

So Adam having the ability to name all the animals and search for a help meat to do, the other work he got to pick out doing, isn't free will.

You seem to have defined free will to be some concept of purely, the free will to choose "good" or "evil." What is it that draws you to that conclusion? Do you have any neuroscientific understanding of free will questions and debate?
Without free will we would have no choice in our direction past the need to survive and procreate like the rest of the living things that exhibit complex structure and feeling, yet not evil. We are the only beings that have choice through free will. We actually hold the destiny of all creation on earth in our hands.

You haven't actually defined what you mean by 'free will', but to use the everyday, common-sense understanding of it as being able to make choices, other animals also exhibit degrees of free will.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-07-2015, 10:02 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(21-07-2015 09:53 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:46 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Without free will we would have no choice in our direction past the need to survive and procreate like the rest of the living things that exhibit complex structure and feeling, yet not evil. We are the only beings that have choice through free will. We actually hold the destiny of all creation on earth in our hands.

Now you get it, this is exactly the true situation you actually may be finding yourself within. There is no reason to view it with some negativity or deem it insignificant.

So could you answer, what makes you believe Free Will has to be some concept involving "evil?"
Balance. Knowledge, by nature is unbiased and therefore enlightens in all both directions as well as the lack there of.
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