Personal experience argument
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22-07-2015, 07:27 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(22-07-2015 07:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Unfogged,
They had knowledge of good as all creation does through its direct link with existence. The Lord actually made himself apparent to them exceedingly so. They knew they would be doomed if they partook the evil knowledge. Lack of free will should have been all they needed with Faith in the Lord or existence as they saw it before them in all its wonderous beauty. Evil needed an in. Evil being wholly deceitful indeed found its way. Through deceit and manipulation of God's work Evil was able to creep in and make every little thing be a test. An opportunity to go up or down. Indeed our free will could be seen as a blessing and a curse. Due to Evil, there must be some small balance.

You stated that they had no knowledge of good and evil and that they had no free will. Now you say they had knowledge of good and that they understood that tehy would be doomed if the partook of evil knowledge which must mean that they had knowledge of evil (if the didn't then they could not understand the consequences). That directly contradicts your earlier statement so I'm assuming you are admitting that you are just making this shit up as you go.

I have no idea what the rest of your babble regarding free will was supposed to mean but it is unimportant because I can tell that you avoided the question.

If they had no free will then they could not have made choices which means their actions were not under their control. That means it can't be justifiable to hold them accountable for those actions.

Please explain how sin or punishment is reasonable under your theology or admit that you do not know what you are talking about.

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22-07-2015, 08:16 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
They had no knowledge in the sense that you were thinking. They had been shown the right path like a plant or insect. I said they knew that they would be doomed because God told them or in the sense that all living things have this understanding. It doesn't mean they could think for themselves. It doesn't contradict anything. I simply went into more detail as you asked.
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22-07-2015, 09:13 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(22-07-2015 08:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  They had no knowledge in the sense that you were thinking. They had been shown the right path like a plant or insect. I said they knew that they would be doomed because God told them or in the sense that all living things have this understanding. It doesn't mean they could think for themselves. It doesn't contradict anything. I simply went into more detail as you asked.

Your crap is so hopelessly tangled it is impossible to understand what you are trying to say. If they knew they were doomed then they had knowledge. I have no idea what you mean by "all living things have this understanding" because I sure as hell don't.Tongue

You may call it more detail. I call it just one contradiction after another.

And after all that, you still haven't actually addressed the question:
If they had no free will then they could not have made choices which means their actions were not under their control. That means it can't be justifiable to hold them accountable for those actions.

Please explain how sin or punishment is reasonable under your theology or admit that you do not know what you are talking about.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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22-07-2015, 09:19 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(22-07-2015 03:58 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  free will cannot exist without evil.
Does god have free will?

Also why the hell not? I've already explained exactly how it can and not only can but would be an objectively better world if it was so.

You're welcome to demonstrate out how my example was flawed, or to explain how evil can't be separated from free will or you...go on a tangent that's not related to the questions I just asked you at all and just talk about your rainbow unicorns and shit like you always do. Whatever works for you really, it will be wrong either way.

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22-07-2015, 09:21 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(22-07-2015 04:04 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:36 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Funny enough I actually just did block pops, I told him to stop sending his garbage to my inbox and he didn't so on the list he went to keep him from vomiting his bullshit in my inbox.
He joins Call_of_the_Wild and Wicked Clown.

Truly he strides amongst the giants! of stupidity

Many of the dickweeds of this sort have a tendency to ignore obviously female posters...which speaks volumes about where their tiny little...uh...brains are.

I haven't been graced with PMs from any of them either...bummer...I am hurt, wounded even. Dodgy I haven't had a PM from a shithead since Clownboy finally got the heave-ho.

These guys will be fine in my little group of ignored posters - the list is short - a pedophile and some ignorant assholes. Quite the elite group.
Ya it's really bad when your list is a pedophile, a rapist, and Call_of_the_Wild who some how is the worst shit head of the three.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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22-07-2015, 09:28 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(21-07-2015 09:12 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Adam and Eve ...... they were without knowledge of good and evil.....
Couple hours later.....
(22-07-2015 07:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  They had knowledge of good.......

You are not even trying now ya lazy bastard.


(22-07-2015 07:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Through deceit and manipulation of God's work Evil was able to creep in and make every little thing be a test.

Well I just threw up in my mouth a little bit and it still tasted better then what I just read.

OK so clearly your sexist but you mentioned Sodom and Gahmorah earlier and I wanted to ask "Is two gay men who love each other engaging in gay sex evil or good, positive or negative?"

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22-07-2015, 09:31 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(22-07-2015 08:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  They had no knowledge in the sense that you were thinking. They had been shown the right path like a plant or insect. I said they knew that they would be doomed because God told them or in the sense that all living things have this understanding. It doesn't mean they could think for themselves. It doesn't contradict anything. I simply went into more detail as you asked.

[Image: bullshit-meter.gif]

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22-07-2015, 10:49 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
Free Thought,

Without Faith in the good in existence you cannot ever expect to attain a complete knowledge. Your pride has to go to ever attain Faith. Vibes or vibrations are pertinent in that everything is literally just matter slowed to a vibration. With that being said a particular harmony that you put off can be felt by more instinctual creatures. I don't just observe wasps, spiders, literal wild young, and territorial dogs. I literally get in there individual space incroaching in there comfortable existence. Often times I must destroy nests, webs, and the like while doing my job. I often end up with spiders crawling on me, guard dogs licking and listening to me, wasps buzzing all around me. Very seldom am I bitten or stung. So, maybe I'm just good with animals, and insects, and infants, and children. But everyone can see that we are well established on our throne atop the food chain. Regardless of your opinion on how we got there, there we set.

No I don't think that singe celled organisms have feelings in a way that we know. However, they still go along there path to the very best of there ability. Of course this isn't emotion. When I said animals I was referring to more complex organisms such as mammals, and some birds, perhaps even amphibions. Even hive insects exhibit amazing coordination and understanding through instinct whch is definitely similar to if not tied to emotion of some sort. Once again, dominion as refered to in ancient texts is based on Faith, therefore the full potential can not be witnessed without it. Hope that clears it up a little. If not, feel free to ask more questions. I'll try to answer as clearly as possible.
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22-07-2015, 10:52 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(22-07-2015 02:49 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 10:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You have a mistake or two there, if I may say so.

The 70 years was taken away from the 430, leaving 360 x 7 = (moved to Gentile calendar) 1948. It's 360 x 7, not 430 times 7, not 70 times 7.

We're not talking about instruction sets and how you'd like them modified. We're talking about a being existing beyond time (in our relative time/space, He is outside it) and predicting future events.

Sure you can say so Big Grin But, no, I did not make a mistake Tongue

The 430 is from 390 + 40 (taken from Ezekiel 4). Ezekiel is told to lie on one side of his body for 390 days (House of Israel) and 40 days on the other side of his body (House of Judah).

My point is that it makes no sense from the get-go to add these two numbers together. In Ezekiel, the 390 and 40 are referring to two different houses (House of Israel/House of Judah). They are not supposed to be added together. God, in fact, is so adamant that these are separate entities, He tells Ezekiel the following:

Ezekiel 4:8-- "See, I bind you with ropes so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have completed the days of your siege."

As per the above passage, God makes it clear that the amount of punishment for each house is separate and distinct. He even binds Ezekiel with ropes to keep him from turning over onto a different side. Why go to the trouble of doing this if the houses were supposed to be added together?

Missler and Jeffrey added 390 and 40 together--despite the fact that it is not justified by Scripture to do so. After combining 390 + 40 = 430, Missler and Jeffrey THEN subtract 70 (from the Babylon exile) to come out with 360. Then, they take 360 x 7 (from Leviticus). This is clear passage jumping and playing with numbers.

The reason I said it should be 70 x 7 from the outset (if we were going to do math calculations at all) is because the Bible says the exile lasted 70 years. Ezekiel's prophecy of 390/40 never came true. Additionally, Ezekiel never says in the passage, "Oh by the way, this 390/40 business is for the year 1948." Why doesn't he say that? Because he was talking about the Babylonian exile, which makes sense if you read the entire book of Ezekiel in its historical context.

The Bible is a book that is chock-full of dates and numbers. Jeffrey and Missler are not prophets--they are just humans who played with numbers and passages to get a desired outcome. There is absolutely no Scriptural justification for any of their calculations. You and I could pick a random date and then go through the Bible and find numbers and passages to justify our calculations if we really wanted to. It's really not that difficult. You can see how easy it is to do this just by doing a google search on Bible codes/calculations--there are all kinds of things people have "found" in the Bible.
Ezekiel did time for both. Effectively adding them together.
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22-07-2015, 11:11 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
Unfogged,

Most people don't because of the way society is.

Just like the tree in my yard they knew what to do and what not to do. Just because a tree knows how to grow doesn't mean it can think in terms we can understand. And technically, there free will could have been at the exact time of there sins. All I can say is that there weren't destined to sin. It was through manipulation, by evil. In order for them to not be completely consumed by evil and damning all of creation there were made to live in a manner that could remind them of the direction towards the rightious. Good and bad are both part of our existence. It is indeed directly related to our glorious gift/ horrid curse of conscious thought/ free will. If free will was never introduced we would not have the Universal potential that we do have, even though most don't realize it.
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