Personal experience argument
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23-07-2015, 09:50 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(22-07-2015 02:49 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 10:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You have a mistake or two there, if I may say so.

The 70 years was taken away from the 430, leaving 360 x 7 = (moved to Gentile calendar) 1948. It's 360 x 7, not 430 times 7, not 70 times 7.

We're not talking about instruction sets and how you'd like them modified. We're talking about a being existing beyond time (in our relative time/space, He is outside it) and predicting future events.

Sure you can say so Big Grin But, no, I did not make a mistake Tongue

The 430 is from 390 + 40 (taken from Ezekiel 4). Ezekiel is told to lie on one side of his body for 390 days (House of Israel) and 40 days on the other side of his body (House of Judah).

My point is that it makes no sense from the get-go to add these two numbers together. In Ezekiel, the 390 and 40 are referring to two different houses (House of Israel/House of Judah). They are not supposed to be added together. God, in fact, is so adamant that these are separate entities, He tells Ezekiel the following:

Ezekiel 4:8-- "See, I bind you with ropes so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have completed the days of your siege."

As per the above passage, God makes it clear that the amount of punishment for each house is separate and distinct. He even binds Ezekiel with ropes to keep him from turning over onto a different side. Why go to the trouble of doing this if the houses were supposed to be added together?

Missler and Jeffrey added 390 and 40 together--despite the fact that it is not justified by Scripture to do so. After combining 390 + 40 = 430, Missler and Jeffrey THEN subtract 70 (from the Babylon exile) to come out with 360. Then, they take 360 x 7 (from Leviticus). This is clear passage jumping and playing with numbers.

The reason I said it should be 70 x 7 from the outset (if we were going to do math calculations at all) is because the Bible says the exile lasted 70 years. Ezekiel's prophecy of 390/40 never came true. Additionally, Ezekiel never says in the passage, "Oh by the way, this 390/40 business is for the year 1948." Why doesn't he say that? Because he was talking about the Babylonian exile, which makes sense if you read the entire book of Ezekiel in its historical context.

The Bible is a book that is chock-full of dates and numbers. Jeffrey and Missler are not prophets--they are just humans who played with numbers and passages to get a desired outcome. There is absolutely no Scriptural justification for any of their calculations. You and I could pick a random date and then go through the Bible and find numbers and passages to justify our calculations if we really wanted to. It's really not that difficult. You can see how easy it is to do this just by doing a google search on Bible codes/calculations--there are all kinds of things people have "found" in the Bible.

Why was there a subtraction of 70 years? Because some of the people, a faithful remnant, returned from diaspora. 70 years off the diaspora of 430 = 360 x 7 equals:

* Not 1984

* Not 2001

* Not 2010

* Not Space, 1999

* Not 5,000 other dates I can list but 1948

PS. Northern and Southern Israel were one separated (shades of diaspora) people. They are less separated due to the 1948 occurrence.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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23-07-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
All,

Why is it that atheists are SO into what Adam and Eve did or didn't do, and whether or not they were cognizant of their actions, and whether or not they were good or evil, and SO into saying all the heinous personal choices they make and the things they do as atheists (whereas Adam and Eve made sacrifices and taught their children to do so) are squeaky clean and innocent?

PS. I'm being rhetorical so please don't bother to answer, rather, meditate on our standing before God, as sinners.

[Image: 1351118073_9879_Fetus.jpg]

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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23-07-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Why is it that atheists are SO into what Adam and Eve did or didn't do, and whether or not they were cognizant of their actions, and whether or not they were good or evil, and SO into saying all the heinous personal choices they make and the things they do as atheists (whereas Adam and Eve made sacrifices and taught their children to do so) are squeaky clean and innocent?

PS. I'm being rhetorical so please don't bother to answer, rather, meditate on our standing before God, as sinners.

[Image: 1351118073_9879_Fetus.jpg]

Because that monotheistic crowd who believes that story often contradict their ideas by how foolishly they label the scenarios of what occurred in that story. As well as some of the other Genesis/Exodus stories.

Again, I've pointed this out so many times you clearly still don't understand something. When one is talking in a hypothetical about a theistic principal or scenario you don't believe in, that person may still talk as if in a way they were accepting of the religious idea of evil/good even without believing it. It's called being logically able to examine the mental action of the opposition, you know like writing a literature paper or doing a debate. It's a simple skill that's not hard to discern for high shcoolers.

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23-07-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 02:49 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Sure you can say so Big Grin But, no, I did not make a mistake Tongue

The 430 is from 390 + 40 (taken from Ezekiel 4). Ezekiel is told to lie on one side of his body for 390 days (House of Israel) and 40 days on the other side of his body (House of Judah).

My point is that it makes no sense from the get-go to add these two numbers together. In Ezekiel, the 390 and 40 are referring to two different houses (House of Israel/House of Judah). They are not supposed to be added together. God, in fact, is so adamant that these are separate entities, He tells Ezekiel the following:

Ezekiel 4:8-- "See, I bind you with ropes so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have completed the days of your siege."

As per the above passage, God makes it clear that the amount of punishment for each house is separate and distinct. He even binds Ezekiel with ropes to keep him from turning over onto a different side. Why go to the trouble of doing this if the houses were supposed to be added together?

Missler and Jeffrey added 390 and 40 together--despite the fact that it is not justified by Scripture to do so. After combining 390 + 40 = 430, Missler and Jeffrey THEN subtract 70 (from the Babylon exile) to come out with 360. Then, they take 360 x 7 (from Leviticus). This is clear passage jumping and playing with numbers.

The reason I said it should be 70 x 7 from the outset (if we were going to do math calculations at all) is because the Bible says the exile lasted 70 years. Ezekiel's prophecy of 390/40 never came true. Additionally, Ezekiel never says in the passage, "Oh by the way, this 390/40 business is for the year 1948." Why doesn't he say that? Because he was talking about the Babylonian exile, which makes sense if you read the entire book of Ezekiel in its historical context.

The Bible is a book that is chock-full of dates and numbers. Jeffrey and Missler are not prophets--they are just humans who played with numbers and passages to get a desired outcome. There is absolutely no Scriptural justification for any of their calculations. You and I could pick a random date and then go through the Bible and find numbers and passages to justify our calculations if we really wanted to. It's really not that difficult. You can see how easy it is to do this just by doing a google search on Bible codes/calculations--there are all kinds of things people have "found" in the Bible.

Why was there a subtraction of 70 years? Because some of the people, a faithful remnant, returned from diaspora. 70 years off the diaspora of 430 = 360 x 7 equals:

* Not 1984

* Not 2001

* Not 2010

* Not Space, 1999

* Not 5,000 other dates I can list but 1948

PS. Northern and Southern Israel were one separated (shades of diaspora) people. They are less separated due to the 1948 occurrence.

I can see I am not going to change your mind. Dodgy If you want to believe the Bible predicted 1948, you certainly can do that. Thumbsup Just something to think about though: When you have control over what start date you use and what numbers you use and whether or not you are going to add, subtract, multiply, divide them...it is really easy to come out with a desired answer.

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23-07-2015, 11:15 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Why is it that atheists are SO into what Adam and Eve did or didn't do, and whether or not they were cognizant of their actions, and whether or not they were good or evil, and SO into saying all the heinous personal choices they make and the things they do as atheists (whereas Adam and Eve made sacrifices and taught their children to do so) are squeaky clean and innocent?

PS. I'm being rhetorical so please don't bother to answer, rather, meditate on our standing before God, as sinners.

[Image: 1351118073_9879_Fetus.jpg]

Q, you are being snarky today Tongue I was interested in Adam and Eve and the meaning within the story when I was a Christian. In order to be a true follower of God, I thought it was important to understand what He was trying to say within the passages of *his* book. Now as an atheist, I do enjoy picking apart the passage(s) and looking at it from a literary angle just as I would any piece of literature.

Heinous personal choices? I don't sleep around, I believe in monogamous rships, I help the homeless (especially homeless living on the streets with animals), I give to charities, I don't steal from others, I don't harm others (I don't even eat animals because I don't like the idea of harming anything), and oh yeah...I'm an atheist.

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23-07-2015, 11:30 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 11:15 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Heinous personal choices? I don't sleep around, I believe in monogamous rships, I help the homeless (especially homeless living on the streets with animals), I give to charities, I don't steal from others, I don't harm others (I don't even eat animals because I don't like the idea of harming anything), and oh yeah...I'm an atheist.

But you're still going to hell. Repent for you don't know the time when Almighty will see fit to judge you Big Grin

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-07-2015, 11:34 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 11:30 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 11:15 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Heinous personal choices? I don't sleep around, I believe in monogamous rships, I help the homeless (especially homeless living on the streets with animals), I give to charities, I don't steal from others, I don't harm others (I don't even eat animals because I don't like the idea of harming anything), and oh yeah...I'm an atheist.

But you're still going to hell. Repent for you don't know the time when Almighty will see fit to judge you Big Grin

Sadcryface2

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23-07-2015, 11:38 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 11:34 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 11:30 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  But you're still going to hell. Repent for you don't know the time when Almighty will see fit to judge you Big Grin

Sadcryface2

Emoticon is fitting for where you go: There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

Such "threatening" with hell is strangely relaxing. Maybe it's why believers do this so often? Consider

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-07-2015, 11:41 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
Q is a self righteous, arrogant, and deluded liar - he is the heinous one around here.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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23-07-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Why is it that atheists are SO into what Adam and Eve did or didn't do, and whether or not they were cognizant of their actions, and whether or not they were good or evil, and SO into saying all the heinous personal choices they make and the things they do as atheists (whereas Adam and Eve made sacrifices and taught their children to do so) are squeaky clean and innocent?

PS. I'm being rhetorical so please don't bother to answer, rather, meditate on our standing before God, as sinners.

[Image: 1351118073_9879_Fetus.jpg]

Those "sacrifices" that Adam and Eve taught their children to do led to the first murder, according to your book. Just sayin'.

I'm not really worried about being judged by your god as ethically deficient, however. I have never made a heinous personal choice. I've never destroyed civilizations with fire and flood or told my followers to commit genocide, for example. Actions like that are heinous, I agree.
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