Personal experience argument
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-07-2015, 01:25 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(07-07-2015 09:44 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I think a personal experience/personal encounter with God MAY be valid. Just this weekend at a funeral, I spoke with a woman who claimed three such encounters with Jesus--we discussed it before she prayed with my dad and I to receive Jesus as Savior.
1. You believe in Jesus and his magical abilities
2. Someone claims that Jesus did magical things to them
Conclusion. Jesus must have done magical things to this person as claimed.

1. You don't believe in the Indian gods.
2. Someone claims that the Indian gods did magical things to them
Conclusion. This person making the claim is mistaken.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like Stevil's post
07-07-2015, 02:07 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(07-07-2015 09:44 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I think a personal experience/personal encounter with God MAY be valid. Just this weekend at a funeral, I spoke with a woman who claimed three such encounters with Jesus--we discussed it before she prayed with my dad and I to receive Jesus as Savior.

However, personal experience doesn't substitute for knowledge/fact checking/research/logic when checking Bible claims or the claims of any religion, even skeptics' claims.


To add to Stevil's post above, I have a good friend that was pretty down and out. He was living on the street, an alcoholic, and doing petty crimes.

One day, he walked into a Hindu temple in LA and claims to have had a personal experience with the Hindu god. His description is pretty much identical to the type of experience that Christians claim they have with their god.

He quit alcohol that day, and preceded to change his life around. 10 years later, he has a successful small business and a nice family. He is still a Hindu and is adamant that his life was changed by the Hindu god.

Is his personal experience valid? Why or why not?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Simon Moon's post
07-07-2015, 02:16 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
I think the best answer to the "Argument from Personal Experience" (or "personal revelation") is to give your own (since this is about personal experience).

My dream of Heaven:

Many people dream of Heaven and claim it was "just so real!" Mine is no different. And yet... it was so different.

The moment I woke up, I knew I was dead. This was it. I opened my eyes to the hallway of a my high school. It was completely deserted, but a complete mess. Lockers were opened. Books and paperwork strewn about. Pens and pencils lying about creating slip-n-fall hazards all over the floor. The hallway was L-shaped, and as I turned to the left, there was more mess. And as I approached the double doors at the end, I saw blood on the walls. Why? I have no idea. Maybe there was a school shooting and I was one of the victims. But the question and answer did not matter much to me at this point.

As I went to open the door, I could feel the cold steal of the door handle in my hand. Pushing the door open, I felt resistance as the wind outside fought me. And I stepped out onto...

A beach? But it was weird. It was night time on the beach, and there were eight other people there. Seven of them, were dead like me (how did I know this? Again I do not know), and the eighth was St. Peter (I just knew it was St. Peter. I knew it). Behind St. Peter was a set of three steps leading up to a door. Just a door. No building to go with it.

All that was not what was weird about the beach. In somewhat equal spacing throughout the beach, were what looked like black, spikey eggs lying on their side. Not one egg was equal in size to another, ranging from as big as an elephant to as small as a mouse.

"Saint Peter," I asked, "what are these?"

He said, "Within each of these objects is sum of the good deeds of each man and woman throughout their lives until death."

"Do I have one?" I asked.

"No," said Peter. "And that's b-"

And that is when I woke up...

So how can I have a dream like this and still be an atheist? Why can't I use this even as proof to myself that Heaven is for real and Christianity is the way?

Well, for one thing, as I've pointed out in the beginning of the story, it was very different. There's nothing in the Bible that fits this description. I've not heard this same experience from anyone else.

Secondly, I have lots of dreams that I swear seemed so real. A lot of them are recurring dreams: missing an entire semester of college, a sexual encounter with someone I knew in high school or college, dreams of flying, and my favorites are the ones about the Alien (the xenomorph from the movie series). And most of the time they seem so real. So freakin real. Sometimes I want to go back to sleep and finish it. And that never fuckin works does it?

But going back to that dream I can pick out earlier events in my real life for which that dream takes from. I've heard about school shootings, watched "Bowling for Columbine. The door on the beach, with no building, is from "The Drawing of Three" which is the second book of Stephen King's "Dark Tower" series (actually, the dislocated door has been used in other stories, but the Dark Tower sticks with me). And I've heard Heaven stories involving St. Peter and some sort of gimmick used to measure deeds or some crap. Some of them are from faith based jokes told in church.

In any case, that's just one example of a "personal experience". And because I can find other explanations for that very vivid dream, not even I can bring that to a debate, much less convince myself that "heaven is for real".

My blog
[Image: communion_zpslrzvgcuh.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like WalkingSnake's post
07-07-2015, 02:34 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(07-07-2015 02:16 PM)WalkingSnake Wrote:  I think the best answer to the "Argument from Personal Experience" (or "personal revelation") is to give your own (since this is about personal experience).

My dream of Heaven:

Many people dream of Heaven and claim it was "just so real!" Mine is no different. And yet... it was so different.

Interesting story, thanks for sharing!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-07-2015, 02:58 PM
Personal experience argument
Long ago, I had a vision while meditating, and I'm still an atheist. It all depends if you're willing to think or just accept blindly.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-07-2015, 03:00 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
I've had many visions.....

Of course good LSD was easier to find in the early 80's......

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-07-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
What qualifies as a personal experience with god, and how can you possibly know if it was god and not some random neuron misfire?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-07-2015, 03:39 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(07-07-2015 03:14 PM)pablo Wrote:  What qualifies as a personal experience with god, and how can you possibly know if it was god and not some random neuron misfire?

Well, obviously, god communicates though neuron misfiring and resultant hallucinations.
Like, duh.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-07-2015, 04:05 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
Quote:"I had been an atheist my whole life...

Well not his whole life.

Quote: "Okay, let's see in what do they actually believe". I listened to some religous radiostation while reading the bible,

At the same time? That seems distracting. I could understand some calm music. But to hear people bable on in the background while i try to read a very convenluted book is hardly the way to go about it.

Quote:One day i was thinking all the contradictions in the bible and still tried to pray from the bottom of my heart. After that something amazing happened.

This is the part of his story where I being to think he's lieing. He was thinking about contradictions and then he and because of this he decided to pray. I can't see what would want him to do such a thing? Or the connection to the two. And i think in can understand his curiousity for wanting to know if there is something else. That's how i came to being a convicted Athiesist.

Quote:While i was praying my whole body started to feel this weird power / presence and an amazing feeling of being loved. After that i started to hear this "talking" inside my head, but it wasnt really "talking". If telepathy was real, that's propably how i would explain it to feel. The voice told me it was an angel, but didnt point to any character etc, it was like the angel itself was the message from god, or god or something like that.But in that moment it was very logical. At first it was calming me down and saying multiple times "There is nothing to fear, everything is fine". Even saying it like that, it comes out a little clumsy, because the situation was very non-linear. Just afterwards i have been putting it into a linear order in my head. So i will try to explain it clearly and to dress it so human's could understand it better.

Ok for starters. I was a believer ruffly 29 long years. In those 29 years, i would pray everynight before i'd went to sleep,before each meal and whenever someone or myself was in trouble. As my faith was being "tested" I praised even more so. Asking for more dramatic signs that would remove any doubt from my mind. They never came. My last prayer i made was for an angel or god to manifest himself. Or loose one of his truly devout.

And in all that time even that last moment did I ever; EVER! Had anything like this happen to me.

Quote:Well, right there it was letting me ask all kinda questions. Every question got answered in a second and i didnt need to ask any follow up questions because all the answers were so perfect. I asked when Jesus is coming back and why did he come in the first place. The most important answer for me was that one of my good friend had passed away couple years ago and i asked how is he doing and God answered "He has been saved, and everything is fine for him."
It was really amazing since i never thought my friend was religious at all.

So all these questions he asked. The only one he wanted to share was the one about Jesus returning. Not about the universe or how to solve the ever increasing problems on the earth. Just when would Jesus get back.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Commonsensei's post
07-07-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: Personal experience argument
(07-07-2015 04:05 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  So all these questions he asked. The only one he wanted to share was the one about Jesus returning. Not about the universe or how to solve the ever increasing problems on the earth. Just when would Jesus get back.

Yeah, people never seem to ask questions that humans do not have the answer to.

Someone argued with him, giving some explanations why these experiences might occur and not be "real". The answers he gave back of course were:

"I know it was God, i just know because i know and that's how i know!" and "I don't care if it ends up not being true." (So there seems to be some doubt)

Also "Let's just see in the end who was right and who was wrong :-)" (Of course you need to throw some threat of hell in the end *wink wink* for the skeptics..)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: