Personal experience argument
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23-07-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 11:41 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Q is a self righteous, arrogant, and deluded liar - he is the heinous one around here.

That's not even what bothers me about him, it's his rampant incompetence in the subject that make him annoying.

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24-07-2015, 10:22 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 09:59 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Why is it that atheists are SO into what Adam and Eve did or didn't do, and whether or not they were cognizant of their actions, and whether or not they were good or evil, and SO into saying all the heinous personal choices they make and the things they do as atheists (whereas Adam and Eve made sacrifices and taught their children to do so) are squeaky clean and innocent?

PS. I'm being rhetorical so please don't bother to answer, rather, meditate on our standing before God, as sinners.

[Image: 1351118073_9879_Fetus.jpg]

Because that monotheistic crowd who believes that story often contradict their ideas by how foolishly they label the scenarios of what occurred in that story. As well as some of the other Genesis/Exodus stories.

Again, I've pointed this out so many times you clearly still don't understand something. When one is talking in a hypothetical about a theistic principal or scenario you don't believe in, that person may still talk as if in a way they were accepting of the religious idea of evil/good even without believing it. It's called being logically able to examine the mental action of the opposition, you know like writing a literature paper or doing a debate. It's a simple skill that's not hard to discern for high shcoolers.

No, my point was how often atheists prefer abstract theology to dealing with their sin. I dealt with my sin in large part when I trusted Jesus Christ for salvation.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-07-2015, 10:25 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 10:06 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 09:50 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Why was there a subtraction of 70 years? Because some of the people, a faithful remnant, returned from diaspora. 70 years off the diaspora of 430 = 360 x 7 equals:

* Not 1984

* Not 2001

* Not 2010

* Not Space, 1999

* Not 5,000 other dates I can list but 1948

PS. Northern and Southern Israel were one separated (shades of diaspora) people. They are less separated due to the 1948 occurrence.

I can see I am not going to change your mind. Dodgy If you want to believe the Bible predicted 1948, you certainly can do that. Thumbsup Just something to think about though: When you have control over what start date you use and what numbers you use and whether or not you are going to add, subtract, multiply, divide them...it is really easy to come out with a desired answer.

The expositors of this idea had no control over:

* When the diaspora began

* When some returned from captivity

* The number seven being the number in the Torah as used for a multiplicand

* The State of Israel coming to pass in 1948 CE

All four of which were firmly in place, as I mentioned, before skeptics questioned diaspora prophecy and before the numbers "added up" for Christian believers.

But perhaps we should talk about a different prophecy? The one I referenced where Jesus's death was predicted for (from memory) April 4, 29 AD? That's a hot topic or it should be--it could be a smoking gun for trusting Jesus for salvation.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-07-2015, 10:25 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 11:15 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Why is it that atheists are SO into what Adam and Eve did or didn't do, and whether or not they were cognizant of their actions, and whether or not they were good or evil, and SO into saying all the heinous personal choices they make and the things they do as atheists (whereas Adam and Eve made sacrifices and taught their children to do so) are squeaky clean and innocent?

PS. I'm being rhetorical so please don't bother to answer, rather, meditate on our standing before God, as sinners.

[Image: 1351118073_9879_Fetus.jpg]

Q, you are being snarky today Tongue I was interested in Adam and Eve and the meaning within the story when I was a Christian. In order to be a true follower of God, I thought it was important to understand what He was trying to say within the passages of *his* book. Now as an atheist, I do enjoy picking apart the passage(s) and looking at it from a literary angle just as I would any piece of literature.

Heinous personal choices? I don't sleep around, I believe in monogamous rships, I help the homeless (especially homeless living on the streets with animals), I give to charities, I don't steal from others, I don't harm others (I don't even eat animals because I don't like the idea of harming anything), and oh yeah...I'm an atheist.

You are a good person. Are you perfect?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-07-2015, 10:26 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 11:38 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 11:34 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Sadcryface2

Emoticon is fitting for where you go: There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

Such "threatening" with hell is strangely relaxing. Maybe it's why believers do this so often? Consider

I talk about Hell very little. So do most believers I know. But it's normally brought to the fore by atheists as one of their canards/sticking points/stumbling blocks over which they themselves stumble. Did I bring it up this time or did an atheist?

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24-07-2015, 10:29 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 11:46 AM)julep Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Why is it that atheists are SO into what Adam and Eve did or didn't do, and whether or not they were cognizant of their actions, and whether or not they were good or evil, and SO into saying all the heinous personal choices they make and the things they do as atheists (whereas Adam and Eve made sacrifices and taught their children to do so) are squeaky clean and innocent?

PS. I'm being rhetorical so please don't bother to answer, rather, meditate on our standing before God, as sinners.

[Image: 1351118073_9879_Fetus.jpg]

Those "sacrifices" that Adam and Eve taught their children to do led to the first murder, according to your book. Just sayin'.

I'm not really worried about being judged by your god as ethically deficient, however. I have never made a heinous personal choice. I've never destroyed civilizations with fire and flood or told my followers to commit genocide, for example. Actions like that are heinous, I agree.

Interesting point, except I thought it was that Cain not giving a quality sacrifice and anger against his brother's holiness and jealousy led to his murderous intent. Without sacrifice, the story is of... an atheist (?) or a mainline, dead believer (?) killing a believer... Confused

So you're not exceptionally ethically deficient. Are you perfect?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-07-2015, 10:31 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(24-07-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 10:06 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I can see I am not going to change your mind. Dodgy If you want to believe the Bible predicted 1948, you certainly can do that. Thumbsup Just something to think about though: When you have control over what start date you use and what numbers you use and whether or not you are going to add, subtract, multiply, divide them...it is really easy to come out with a desired answer.

The expositors of this idea had no control over:

* When the diaspora began

* When some returned from captivity

* The number seven being the number in the Torah as used for a multiplicand

* The State of Israel coming to pass in 1948 CE

All four of which were firmly in place, as I mentioned, before skeptics questioned diaspora prophecy and before the numbers "added up" for Christian believers.

But perhaps we should talk about a different prophecy? The one I referenced where Jesus's death was predicted for (from memory) April 4, 29 AD? That's a hot topic or it should be--it could be a smoking gun for trusting Jesus for salvation.

Daniel didn't predict Jesus.
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24-07-2015, 10:31 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(23-07-2015 11:51 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 11:41 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Q is a self righteous, arrogant, and deluded liar - he is the heinous one around here.

That's not even what bothers me about him, it's his rampant incompetence in the subject that make him annoying.

Funny, I have the opposite concept, likely why I'm a Christian.

You are saying it bothers you less that I'm deluded than that I'm incompetent/unlearned. Typical atheist arrogance, unfortunately. Atheists love to say how high their IQs are--often they are high, and pride is a part of man, so there's that, whatcha' gonna do?

I'm less upset about a man's knowledge base than whether or not he pursues truth. I guess I responded strongly when Jesus Christ said, "I am the truth."

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-07-2015, 10:34 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(24-07-2015 10:22 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 09:59 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Because that monotheistic crowd who believes that story often contradict their ideas by how foolishly they label the scenarios of what occurred in that story. As well as some of the other Genesis/Exodus stories.

Again, I've pointed this out so many times you clearly still don't understand something. When one is talking in a hypothetical about a theistic principal or scenario you don't believe in, that person may still talk as if in a way they were accepting of the religious idea of evil/good even without believing it. It's called being logically able to examine the mental action of the opposition, you know like writing a literature paper or doing a debate. It's a simple skill that's not hard to discern for high shcoolers.

No, my point was how often atheists prefer abstract theology to dealing with their sin. I dealt with my sin in large part when I trusted Jesus Christ for salvation.

They prefer to discuss abstract theology when talking to a person they know who believes... they don't believe it so of course they wouldn't "deal" with it. There is nothing to deal with.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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24-07-2015, 10:36 AM
RE: Personal experience argument
(24-07-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(23-07-2015 11:15 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Q, you are being snarky today Tongue I was interested in Adam and Eve and the meaning within the story when I was a Christian. In order to be a true follower of God, I thought it was important to understand what He was trying to say within the passages of *his* book. Now as an atheist, I do enjoy picking apart the passage(s) and looking at it from a literary angle just as I would any piece of literature.

Heinous personal choices? I don't sleep around, I believe in monogamous rships, I help the homeless (especially homeless living on the streets with animals), I give to charities, I don't steal from others, I don't harm others (I don't even eat animals because I don't like the idea of harming anything), and oh yeah...I'm an atheist.

You are a good person. Are you perfect?

No, of course not and I wouldn't want to be. I like imperfections. It makes life interesting.

I know you are going to pull out the Jesus card now. Big Grin He wasn't exactly perfect either and was capable of human emotions as evidenced by several passages.
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