Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
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22-12-2012, 01:57 PM
RE: Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
(22-12-2012 01:56 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 12:40 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I have an immense respect our founding fathers, even if they thought it was logical to believe in a deity.
Not all of them.
Name one that was not at least a deist, and that we can do nothing but speculate that they were not at most agnostic.

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22-12-2012, 01:57 PM
RE: Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
(22-12-2012 12:45 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Not a hero but someone who deserves my respect.

Richard Dawkins. Smart guy, at the forefront of the religious debates. Might have heard of him.

Comes off as a dick.


No, he doesn't.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-12-2012, 02:01 PM
RE: Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
To me he sure does. Not just me either. Thousands of non theists think so to.

Don't get me wrong I still like the guy.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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22-12-2012, 02:20 PM
RE: Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
(22-12-2012 01:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 12:45 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Not a hero but someone who deserves my respect.

Richard Dawkins. Smart guy, at the forefront of the religious debates. Might have heard of him.

Comes off as a dick.


No, he doesn't.
Agreed.

(22-12-2012 02:01 PM)lucradis Wrote:  To me he sure does. Not just me either. Thousands of non theists think so to.

Don't get me wrong I still like the guy.
If anyone is going to come off as a dick, it'd be Christopher Hitchens (and he didn't either).

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22-12-2012, 02:23 PM
RE: Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
Not to make this a Richard Dawkins thing but though I enjoyed God delusion and have watched some of his subsequent videos I find him... too strident. Yes, he doesn't bother to hide his contempt for stupid stuff and that's actually kind of admirable I think, but I can't watch because... maybe it's just social conditioning but that level of confrontationality is too much for me, I keep expecting someone to start throwing punches. So yeah, because he offers *no* quarter, no sympathy, to me he does come off as a dick quite often. But it *is* a useful dickishness and by his dickishness I am saved... reading God delusion and realising I was allowed to think ideas were stupid was a bit of a watershed moment for me... I do enjoy his biology stuff much more because I think as a *teacher* of the cool shit in science he's unmatched.
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22-12-2012, 02:37 PM
RE: Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
^I enjoy that aspect of Dawkins. Maybe it's because I'm a dick myself. I don't think he should hide his contempt for anything deserving of contempt. I think people respect religion far too much already.

But as for heroes, this is why I don't have heroes, exactly. More like there are people with admirable qualities or achievements, people that I respect, etc. but if you dig deep enough, you can probably find something you hate about just about anyone. I mean, I always looked up to my dad but he was a racist homophobe, and I didn't like those qualities of him.
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22-12-2012, 02:42 PM
RE: Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
(22-12-2012 02:37 PM)amyb Wrote:  ^I enjoy that aspect of Dawkins. Maybe it's because I'm a dick myself. I don't think he should hide his contempt for anything deserving of contempt. I think people respect religion far too much already.
I don't think *religion* is deserving of respect, but I do think... a bit of sympathy is not a bad thing either. I mean, most religious people are that way through indoctrination...

But like I said, I profit by his dickishness and I don't disapprove... it just... scrapes a raw nerve. Which means I avoid watching those kinds of debates...
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22-12-2012, 02:57 PM
RE: Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
Oh Hitchens came off as a dick as well. Doesn't mean that he wasn't entertaining or right. Hero worship means ignoring existing faults in favor of new made up behavior.

They are both entertaining and intelligent condescending dicks. I could watch them both for hours. But I don't think I'd want to be friends with either one. Maybe casual aquantances. A dinner here or there. A nice conversation over a hot cup of delicious coffee...But having to hang out with the personalities they present to the public, not more often than rarely.

Maybe neither one is really anything like how the public perceives them. After all image is everything.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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22-12-2012, 03:00 PM
RE: Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
Yeah, I understand what you mean there, but on the other hand, I can appreciate his strategy of being a penis, too. In my experience, gently telling people there are other religions, or theirs might be wrong, or they are victims of indoctrination hasn't worked very well. Sometimes, maybe pointing out that religion is irrational and spreads hate might be a decent shock tactic, when people go on and on about how it's all about love, god is love, love thy neighbor, etc.

Personally, I reserve my sympathy for those who were indoctrinated and then managed to leave. But it might be that I can't deal well with condescending religious folks who call me stupid/lazy or think I haven't heard about Jesus yet, and that must be the reason I'm an atheist.

I did appreciate Hitchens' drunken style more than the way Dawkins talks about these things, though.
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22-12-2012, 03:06 PM
RE: Personal heroes that have insane or annoying beliefs.
(22-12-2012 02:42 PM)morondog Wrote:  I don't think *religion* is deserving of respect, but I do think... a bit of sympathy is not a bad thing either. I mean, most religious people are that way through indoctrination...
You really are a puppy!

To chime in quickly - I don't have heroes or idols or anything. There are people I respect, maybe even admire, but I realise they are just that - people. With their own shortcomings and quirks. Plus, unless I actually know someone, is hard to have a well-founded opinion of who they are.

I also agree with Frankie about blues singers, but seeing as the best ones come from a different time, I can easily overlook it. Modern day singers who croon about how great god is and how much they love him, on the other hand, I can't stand. What are you, retarded? Stick to the less stupid stuff, like moaning about your gf leaving you or something.

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