Personal relationships with deities
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04-04-2017, 01:23 AM
RE: Personal relationships with deities
(02-04-2017 04:24 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 07:14 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  If there is anyone here who thinks their relationship with a deity actually does meet all these criteria, I'd be very interested to hear about it. Do you think you could convince an independent observer of those points? If someone wants to argue you can have a relationship while not meeting any of these criteria, then feel free. Then there is the problem of people all having a personal relationship with supposedly the same being (God/Jesus etc) but then coming back with contradictory messages. This means that one of these must be the case:

Why do I need to convince an independent observer of my "personal relationship" with my deity? Why would they even care?

Does anyone here really care about my relationship with G-d? <-- Eh, cancel that question. There are a few people here who actually do care... and that's creepy and stalkerish of them.

You don't need to do anything. I'm encouraging people to think about this subject, and to discuss it if they want to. The independent observer is hypothetical, to help think it through. Could such evidence be provided to them? If someone is only convincing themselves, then that doesn't get you beyond the realm of imagination.

Personally, I am interested in how people think and why they believe what they do. If someone throws it out there that they have a "personal relationship" with something, I think it's perfectly reasonable for me to ask them to explain how that works. If they don't want to, then that's fine.

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04-04-2017, 02:25 AM
RE: Personal relationships with deities
(02-04-2017 07:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:An independent observer can verify that

1) Both parties in the relationship exist, and are easily distinguishable from being imaginary.
2) Both parties have an independent intelligence.
3) Both parties directly communicate with the other party in a meaningful, observable way.

I agree. We can say this if we believe that "a man" is only flesh, bones and blood.
But if we believe that "a man" is not only flesh, bones and blood but he is spirit in physical body then relationship with Gods also can be done...umm... let's say, in some kind of unique way.

I don't understand what you mean.

If this unique way is indistinguishable from a relationship with nothing at all, how is it real? Why should the criteria change? I can have a relationship with a bucket in this way, if I genuinely believe it's communicating with me.

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04-04-2017, 04:41 AM
RE: Personal relationships with deities
I think Sam Harris summed it up perfectly when commenting on George W Bush's "personal relationship" with god:

"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and Christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."

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04-04-2017, 08:47 AM
RE: Personal relationships with deities
Robvalue Wrote:I don't understand what you mean.
OK.
Would you like to know what I mean? If yes, I can try to explain to the best of my ability.

P.S. I enjoyed both videos with your cute dog.

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04-04-2017, 11:11 PM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2017 11:19 PM by Robvalue.)
RE: Personal relationships with deities
Aww, thanks Heart She's sitting on me right now! Our life revolves around her, pretty much Big Grin

Sure yes, I'd be interested to know. Thanks! From my point of view, I can't differentiate a relationship with God from having an imaginary friend. I don't mean that to be insulting, it's just that literally no one has ever given me a way I could tell the difference.

If God was to communicate with me, and I could verify what was going on, that would certainly be handy. But it would mean that a great deal of what people say is instantly wrong, because those that have a relationship with him cannot agree on even the most fundamental things. So it seems to me they cannot all be having a relationship with the same thing; or else it's a very vague relationship with a lot of interpretation as to what the other party is actually trying to say. Like it's whispering and everyone is straining to hear and filling in the gaps.

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05-04-2017, 07:51 AM
RE: Personal relationships with deities
Is this a trick question? This is a trick question isn't it.

#sigh
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