Persuade an atheist
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16-04-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: Persuade an atheist
(16-04-2015 10:03 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Very good thoughts here. I agree with much of it. I've learned in my time here to not take out the canard that all atheists are in some kind of denial about God. Rather, I feel like you may have not encountered God just yet.

You are ignoring all the ones who were devout but are no longer. You are also not considering the possibility that you may be the one that is wrong and that there is no god to encounter.

Quote:I guess the thing I still dislike is that it's passive-aggressive, or so it has been said, to tell someone you're praying for them--sometimes it's the only response I've said to someone who is shouting at me in public! "Dude, I forgive you, chill, I'll pray for you to be okay..."

That is incredibly conceited. Who are you to be forgiving them? Who are you to be telling them that they are not OK? If you want to pray, pray for yourself.

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16-04-2015, 09:00 PM
RE: Persuade an atheist
(16-04-2015 03:54 AM)The Theist Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 11:06 PM)Russ Wrote:  Again, I never commented on what the bible says, I only gave my opinion on wether or not a soul exists. The confusion comes not from my understanding of the bible, it comes from your inability to clearly and concisely ask a question.

Okay. Let's start again.

1. Do you think that believers know the Bible very well?

2. Do you think that unbelievers know the Bible very well?

3. Do you think it is possible to know the Bible very well?

4. Do you think it is important for either believers or unbelievers who speak for or against the Bible to know it very well?

5. Are you aware of the history of Christendom having been influenced by pagan philosophy and mythology in the majority of their teachings since the second half of the 4th century C.E.?

6. What, according to the Bible is the soul and what according to religion is the soul and how do they differ?

7. What effect generally does this have on the majority of atheists?

Bonus Question: How much better equipped would the average atheist be regarding their ability to successfully debate the average theist if they were more aware of these discrepancies?

Your use of the word 'know' seems somewhat shifty.

1. Some know the bible fairly well, most don't, and when I say 'know' I mean they are familier with what is written in the bible.

2. Most know the bible fairly well, some don't.

3. Yes, you can 'know' bible well in the sense that you can be familier with passages in the bible, the order of the chapters, and what happens in those chapters. Hell, you could memorize the whole book if you where so inclined.
You can also know the bible in the sense that you could study it's history, take theology classes, read literature about the bible, etc.
Another way you could know the bible is in the sense that all of the aproximatly 40000 denominations of christianity 'know' the bible, yet they disagree on theological points. A True Scotsman Fallacy sort of deal.

4. It is important to know what you are talking about if you are attempting to prove or disprove something. When it comes to religion though, I feel like it is clear enough that it is false, being as how most religous texts and stories are indistinguishable from children's tales and fables.

5. Yes I am. Though I was not positive on the date, I new it was prior to the 6th century C.E.

6. I do not have the knowledge to answer this question, nor am I particularly inclined to study it.

7. I would assume it has little effect.

8.(bonus) Which discrepancies? All the discrepancies in the bible or just the ones related to souls? If you are refering to souls, then I would I would say not at all, as there are much larger, and more blatantly obvious inconsistencies in the bible than wether or not the soul is immortal.

(30-03-2015 08:47 PM)Colourcraze Wrote:  IT'S THE HOLY GHOST oooOOOOOOOOOOooooooo
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16-04-2015, 10:33 PM
RE: Persuade an atheist
(15-04-2015 11:42 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Actually, the writer(s) of this ehow has/have a seemingly high respect for atheists. They acknowledge that you have to be secretive, try hard to not be condescending, and keep away from debate just to have a chance at converting an atheist. And then it acknowledges that even if you do all those things, you are still overwhelmingly likely to fail.

Haha. Smile

isn't that obvious ? we made it clear time and time again since antiquity that only evidence will convince us to convert, anything else is an admission to being wrong by default
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17-04-2015, 06:03 AM
RE: Persuade an atheist
(16-04-2015 10:03 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I guess the thing I still dislike is that it's passive-aggressive, or so it has been said, to tell someone you're praying for them--sometimes it's the only response I've said to someone who is shouting at me in public! "Dude, I forgive you, chill, I'll pray for you to be okay..."

To you, that's you taking the moral high ground and being non-combative. To a person who doesn't share your beliefs, you're exiting the discussion while asserting that you're correct.

Contrast this to someone ending a conversation with you saying "I'm sure you feel very strongly about what you believe and that you feel your reasons are good. I still hold out hope that you'll start being intellectually honest.".
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17-04-2015, 10:52 AM
RE: Persuade an atheist
(17-04-2015 06:03 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(16-04-2015 10:03 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I guess the thing I still dislike is that it's passive-aggressive, or so it has been said, to tell someone you're praying for them--sometimes it's the only response I've said to someone who is shouting at me in public! "Dude, I forgive you, chill, I'll pray for you to be okay..."

To you, that's you taking the moral high ground and being non-combative. To a person who doesn't share your beliefs, you're exiting the discussion while asserting that you're correct.

Contrast this to someone ending a conversation with you saying "I'm sure you feel very strongly about what you believe and that you feel your reasons are good. I still hold out hope that you'll start being intellectually honest.".

No, it's not my fault if they don't also pray... by that, I mean that I likewise challenge a Christian who has different doctrine that I will pray that if I'm wrong, God will show me, and I hope they do the same. (And if they don't agree with me soon, I know they didn't pray--just kiddin'!) Angel

Again, I'm also "confessing" that I've said to people shouting at me or even spitting at me that "Dude, chill, calm down, I'll pray for you [to heal and be well, I'll pray that God will grant you repentance]."

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-04-2015, 11:35 AM
RE: Persuade an atheist
(17-04-2015 10:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Again, I'm also "confessing" that I've said to people shouting at me or even spitting at me that "Dude, chill, calm down, I'll pray for you [to heal and be well, I'll pray that God will grant you repentance]."

Like I said, I am surprised you can't see how condescending that is.

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17-04-2015, 11:47 AM
RE: Persuade an atheist
(17-04-2015 10:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Again, I'm also "confessing" that I've said to people shouting at me or even spitting at me that "Dude, chill, calm down, I'll pray for you [to heal and be well, I'll pray that God will grant you repentance]."
You have different beliefs as me? Worry not, I will dance the enlightenment ritual for you. All will be well soon.

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17-04-2015, 12:35 PM
RE: Persuade an atheist
(17-04-2015 10:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  No, it's not my fault if they don't also pray... by that, I mean that I likewise challenge a Christian who has different doctrine that I will pray that if I'm wrong, God will show me, and I hope they do the same. (And if they don't agree with me soon, I know they didn't pray--just kiddin'!) Angel

I'm not saying you don't have your reasons for saying that. In fact, I rather explicitly said that you did.

My point was akin to Dom pointing out how condescending it is. Sure, you don't control whether or not that person prays; my point is, your statement comes off equally passive-aggressive to that guy as someone saying something similar to you.
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17-04-2015, 01:00 PM
RE: Persuade an atheist
All,

It is far less condescending IMHO then punching the fellow in the face when he spits at me. I can honestly live with myself. Really, I can.

--And, I hope you know I'm praying for TTA members even if I don't say it all the time. Prayer is something very personal and intimate and a gift to others on their behalf.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-04-2015, 01:16 PM
RE: Persuade an atheist
Prayer is telling God he's not doing his job properly and needs some advice.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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