Philosophical suicide
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-12-2013, 05:12 PM
Philosophical suicide
I thought this was a great argument, put forward by G.K. Chesterton, regarding what he considers the sin of suicide. It is important to note that this is not particularly directed against those who are driven to suicide for bullying and the like. Chesterton was always antagonistic towards those who, through philosophy, came to the conclusion that life was not worth living. He actually walked around with a loaded gun and would offer to kill those who, when walking together, came to that conclusion.


"I put these things not in their mature logical sequence, but as they came: and this view was cleared and sharpened by an accident of the time. Under the lengthening shadow of Ibsen, an argument arose whether it was not a very nice thing to murder one’s self. Grave moderns told us that we must not even say “poor fellow,” of a man who had blown his brains out, since he was an enviable person, and had only blown them out because of their exceptional excellence. Mr. William Archer even suggested that in the golden age there would be penny-in-the-slot machines, by which a man could kill himself for a penny. In all this I found myself utterly
hostile to many who called themselves liberal and humane. Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational
and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in Mr. Archer’s suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man’s crime is different from other crimes—for it makes even crimes impossible. "

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TarzanSmith's post
01-12-2013, 05:35 PM
RE: Philosophical suicide
(01-12-2013 05:12 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act.

[Image: ndpjw_1893224553.gif]

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Vosur's post
01-12-2013, 05:39 PM
RE: Philosophical suicide
(01-12-2013 05:35 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(01-12-2013 05:12 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act.

[Image: ndpjw_1893224553.gif]

Ahhh shunka daiouu sai-iyuoo, so mucheru animeru in that GIF'eruu.

[Image: 9f6.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-12-2013, 07:25 PM
RE: Philosophical suicide
Yes if it wasn't for that one unfortunate sentence, it would be almost perfect. I had forgotten that sentence and then read it just before I was about to post on this forum. Unfortunately conscience would dictate that I not edit it out but keep the text whole, flaws and all.

Although I think to Chesterton's defense, suicide was less understood in 1908 then it is now and I think much less reported. Chesterton was probably imagining some of the poets and philosophers who ended up killing themselves when their girlfriends dumped them. The idea of chemicals in the brain influencing mood didn't come around until the 1950's.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TarzanSmith's post
01-12-2013, 07:38 PM
RE: Philosophical suicide
(01-12-2013 05:12 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  I thought this was a great argument, put forward by G.K. Chesterton, regarding what he considers the sin of suicide. It is important to note that this is not particularly directed against those who are driven to suicide for bullying and the like. Chesterton was always antagonistic towards those who, through philosophy, came to the conclusion that life was not worth living. He actually walked around with a loaded gun and would offer to kill those who, when walking together, came to that conclusion.


"I put these things not in their mature logical sequence, but as they came: and this view was cleared and sharpened by an accident of the time. Under the lengthening shadow of Ibsen, an argument arose whether it was not a very nice thing to murder one’s self. Grave moderns told us that we must not even say “poor fellow,” of a man who had blown his brains out, since he was an enviable person, and had only blown them out because of their exceptional excellence. Mr. William Archer even suggested that in the golden age there would be penny-in-the-slot machines, by which a man could kill himself for a penny. In all this I found myself utterly
hostile to many who called themselves liberal and humane. Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational
and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in Mr. Archer’s suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man’s crime is different from other crimes—for it makes even crimes impossible. "

Too many words. Sartre - “The absurd man will not commit suicide; he wants to live, without relinquishing any of his certainty, without a future, without hope, without illusions … and without resignation either. He stares at death with passionate attention and this fascination liberates him. He experiences the 'divine irresponsibility' of the condemned man.”

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like GirlyMan's post
01-12-2013, 07:51 PM
RE: Philosophical suicide
(01-12-2013 07:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-12-2013 05:12 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  I thought this was a great argument, put forward by G.K. Chesterton, regarding what he considers the sin of suicide. It is important to note that this is not particularly directed against those who are driven to suicide for bullying and the like. Chesterton was always antagonistic towards those who, through philosophy, came to the conclusion that life was not worth living. He actually walked around with a loaded gun and would offer to kill those who, when walking together, came to that conclusion.


"I put these things not in their mature logical sequence, but as they came: and this view was cleared and sharpened by an accident of the time. Under the lengthening shadow of Ibsen, an argument arose whether it was not a very nice thing to murder one’s self. Grave moderns told us that we must not even say “poor fellow,” of a man who had blown his brains out, since he was an enviable person, and had only blown them out because of their exceptional excellence. Mr. William Archer even suggested that in the golden age there would be penny-in-the-slot machines, by which a man could kill himself for a penny. In all this I found myself utterly
hostile to many who called themselves liberal and humane. Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational
and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in Mr. Archer’s suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man’s crime is different from other crimes—for it makes even crimes impossible. "

Too many words. Sartre - “The absurd man will not commit suicide; he wants to live, without relinquishing any of his certainty, without a future, without hope, without illusions … and without resignation either. He stares at death with passionate attention and this fascination liberates him. He experiences the 'divine irresponsibility' of the condemned man.”

Chesterton had similar views to that and often expressed them. That was the synopsis I believe to one of his first published poems. However I like this better since unlike the Sartre quote, It puts not doing suicide as a form of respect for all things and not merely a fear of death. Sartre's argument is the same old argument that has been used through the centuries. It was the argument of Hamlet, who, personally, I think put in a much nicer way then Sartre. Chesterton takes, as he often does, a much more different and romantic angle. Plus Sartre is a Frenchman, shifty little bastards.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TarzanSmith's post
01-12-2013, 08:21 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2013 08:24 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Philosophical suicide
(01-12-2013 07:51 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(01-12-2013 07:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Too many words. Sartre - “The absurd man will not commit suicide; he wants to live, without relinquishing any of his certainty, without a future, without hope, without illusions … and without resignation either. He stares at death with passionate attention and this fascination liberates him. He experiences the 'divine irresponsibility' of the condemned man.”

Chesterton had similar views to that and often expressed them. That was the synopsis I believe to one of his first published poems. However I like this better since unlike the Sartre quote, It puts not doing suicide as a form of respect for all things and not merely a fear of death. Sartre's argument is the same old argument that has been used through the centuries. It was the argument of Hamlet, who, personally, I think put in a much nicer way then Sartre. Chesterton takes, as he often does, a much more different and romantic angle. Plus Sartre is a Frenchman, shifty little bastards.

Don't get me wrong, I ain't bashing GK. Big Grin And, yeah, fuck the French, shitty shifty little bastards.

(01-12-2013 05:12 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  "Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life."
Thumbsup

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-12-2013, 08:33 PM
RE: Philosophical suicide
I almost feel sorry for you atheists. So much of Chesterton would be absolutely infuriating since he often ties everything together into religion. Yet I think he is one of the Greatest writers of the twentieth century and he offers so much insight into life. An amazing contrast to the pessimism of most of the other writers of his time.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-12-2013, 08:45 PM
RE: Philosophical suicide
(01-12-2013 08:33 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  I almost feel sorry for you atheists. So much of Chesterton would be absolutely infuriating since he often ties everything together into religion. Yet I think he is one of the Greatest writers of the twentieth century and he offers so much insight into life. An amazing contrast to the pessimism of most of the other writers of his time.

Don't cry for Girly Argentina. Girly likes GK, nothing infuriating there.

And it pains the fuck out of me to ground that reference. Weeping




As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: