Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
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29-12-2011, 12:29 PM
Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
"Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source "

Source : topdocumentaryfilms.com/ You tube


http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/philosoph...he-source/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLAD64...r_embedded

Fascinating stuff

Tell me about it , thanks , appreciate

Happy new year by the way, best wishes to you all
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29-12-2011, 07:14 PM
RE: Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
Sorry, but in my opinion any philosophy that states that what we can sense is only a small part of reality is silly. The idea of a completely illusory reality may make for a good film, but it accomplishes nothing as a philosophy.
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30-12-2011, 12:15 PM
RE: Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
(29-12-2011 07:14 PM)Ben Wrote:  Sorry, but in my opinion any philosophy that states that what we can sense is only a small part of reality is silly. The idea of a completely illusory reality may make for a good film, but it accomplishes nothing as a philosophy.


But, sir :

There are other ways or sources to apprehend reality other than our senses, like our intuition, feeling ......
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01-01-2012, 07:11 PM
RE: Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
Intuition is just a prediction based on our memories of sense experiences.
Feeling is again, the result of sense data. You feel sad when sense a sad thing occurring.
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02-01-2012, 12:54 PM
RE: Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
(01-01-2012 07:11 PM)Ben Wrote:  Intuition is just a prediction based on our memories of sense experiences.
Feeling is again, the result of sense data. You feel sad when sense a sad thing occurring.

try to prove just that then

Feeling cannot be only a matter of sense -perception or a matter of stimulus -response , it's much more than that , intuition too ...

Can you say to me then what "feeling " is , what "pain " is , what "joy " is , what " sadness " is , what "love " is , what imagination is, what creativity is , what intuition is ...= they are much more than just a matter of chemistry neuro-physiology or a matter of sense -perception ,...
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02-01-2012, 01:10 PM
RE: Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
(02-01-2012 12:54 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  
(01-01-2012 07:11 PM)Ben Wrote:  Intuition is just a prediction based on our memories of sense experiences.
Feeling is again, the result of sense data. You feel sad when sense a sad thing occurring.

try to prove just that then

Feeling cannot be only a matter of sense -perception or a matter of stimulus -response , it's much more than that , intuition too ...

Can you say to me then what "feeling " is , what "pain " is , what "joy " is , what " sadness " is , what "love " is , what imagination is, what creativity is , what intuition is ...= they are much more than just a matter of chemistry neuro-physiology or a matter of sense -perception ,...

What's more in them than just chemistry?
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02-01-2012, 03:31 PM
RE: Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
(02-01-2012 01:10 PM)imralav Wrote:  
(02-01-2012 12:54 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  
(01-01-2012 07:11 PM)Ben Wrote:  Intuition is just a prediction based on our memories of sense experiences.
Feeling is again, the result of sense data. You feel sad when sense a sad thing occurring.

try to prove just that then

Feeling cannot be only a matter of sense -perception or a matter of stimulus -response , it's much more than that , intuition too ...

Can you say to me then what "feeling " is , what "pain " is , what "joy " is , what " sadness " is , what "love " is , what imagination is, what creativity is , what intuition is ...= they are much more than just a matter of chemistry neuro-physiology or a matter of sense -perception ,...

What's more in them than just chemistry?

Even the everyday's life says the opposite = there is much more than chemistry going on in them obviously = that's what separates us from the other living creatures mainly

prove it then : false Eurocentric reductionistic materialistic ideological approach as a cultural historic ...political...result of the conflict with that backward medieval church = your problem ,not ours = has nothing universal or true


If there 's only chemistry in them like you put it , there is then no morality ethics as such , no good & evil as such, no free will as such, no ideals as such , no love as such , no intellect as such , no consciousness as such, no science as such, ....no justice as such ,no love emotion feeling art literature poetry music religion ...as such .................no human existence , progress, imagination, creativity [/b]or knowledge as such ....= just illusions = just survival strategies = [b]stupid darkness heartless irrational purposeless inexistence = a contradictory paradoxical sterile simplistic ideological impotent nihillistic non-sense
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02-01-2012, 04:50 PM
RE: Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
(02-01-2012 12:54 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  
(01-01-2012 07:11 PM)Ben Wrote:  Intuition is just a prediction based on our memories of sense experiences.
Feeling is again, the result of sense data. You feel sad when sense a sad thing occurring.

try to prove just that then

Feeling cannot be only a matter of sense -perception or a matter of stimulus -response , it's much more than that , intuition too ...

Can you say to me then what "feeling " is , what "pain " is , what "joy " is , what " sadness " is , what "love " is , what imagination is, what creativity is , what intuition is ...= they are much more than just a matter of chemistry neuro-physiology or a matter of sense -perception ,...

I can indeed tell you what "pain," "join," and "sadness" are. They are pain, joy, and sadness. These are the words we have invented to describe those emotions, just as we have invented the word tree to describe trees. You can tell me what a tree is no more than I can tell you what joy is. We can come up with synonyms, or explain how trees form, what they are made up of, or compare them to other things. But none of these offer any better explanation than for me to say that joy is happiness, or that it is the result of chemical processes in the brain.


(02-01-2012 03:31 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  Even the everyday's life says the opposite = there is much more than chemistry going on in them obviously = that's what separates us from the other living creatures mainly

prove it then : false Eurocentric reductionistic materialistic ideological approach as a cultural historic ...political...result of the conflict with that backward medieval church = your problem ,not ours = has nothing universal or true


If there 's only chemistry in them like you put it , there is then no morality ethics as such , no good & evil as such, no free will as such, no ideals as such , no love as such , no intellect as such , no consciousness as such, no science as such, ....no justice as such ,no love emotion feeling art literature poetry music religion ...as such .................no human existence , progress, imagination, creativity [/b]or knowledge as such ....= just illusions = just survival strategies = [b]stupid darkness heartless irrational purposeless inexistence = a contradictory paradoxical sterile simplistic ideological impotent nihillistic non-sense

Complex emotions can arise from a complex neural system, which can arise from a complex biology, from chemistry, from physics, eventually down to the quantum level. The fact that they have simple origins does not diminish the meaning they hold.

I agree it is not usually useful to analyze the chemical processes that are causing your current emotion in everyday life, but that does not mean emotions are above scientific inquiry or irreducible to physical phenomena.
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03-01-2012, 12:33 PM
RE: Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
(02-01-2012 04:50 PM)Ben Wrote:  
(02-01-2012 12:54 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  
(01-01-2012 07:11 PM)Ben Wrote:  Intuition is just a prediction based on our memories of sense experiences.
Feeling is again, the result of sense data. You feel sad when sense a sad thing occurring.

try to prove just that then

Feeling cannot be only a matter of sense -perception or a matter of stimulus -response , it's much more than that , intuition too ...

Can you say to me then what "feeling " is , what "pain " is , what "joy " is , what " sadness " is , what "love " is , what imagination is, what creativity is , what intuition is ...= they are much more than just a matter of chemistry neuro-physiology or a matter of sense -perception ,...

I can indeed tell you what "pain," "join," and "sadness" are. They are pain, joy, and sadness. These are the words we have invented to describe those emotions, just as we have invented the word tree to describe trees. You can tell me what a tree is no more than I can tell you what joy is. We can come up with synonyms, or explain how trees form, what they are made up of, or compare them to other things. But none of these offer any better explanation than for me to say that joy is happiness, or that it is the result of chemical processes in the brain.


(02-01-2012 03:31 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  Even the everyday's life says the opposite = there is much more than chemistry going on in them obviously = that's what separates us from the other living creatures mainly

prove it then : false Eurocentric reductionistic materialistic ideological approach as a cultural historic ...political...result of the conflict with that backward medieval church = your problem ,not ours = has nothing universal or true


If there 's only chemistry in them like you put it , there is then no morality ethics as such , no good & evil as such, no free will as such, no ideals as such , no love as such , no intellect as such , no consciousness as such, no science as such, ....no justice as such ,no love emotion feeling art literature poetry music religion ...as such .................no human existence , progress, imagination, creativity [/b]or knowledge as such ....= just illusions = just survival strategies = stupid darkness heartless irrational purposeless inexistence = a contradictory paradoxical sterile simplistic ideological impotent nihillistic non-sense

Complex emotions can arise from a complex neural system, which can arise from a complex biology, from chemistry, from physics, eventually down to the quantum level. The fact that they have simple origins does not diminish the meaning they hold.

I agree it is not usually useful to analyze the chemical processes that are causing your current emotion in everyday life, but that does not mean emotions are above scientific inquiry or irreducible to physical phenomena.


Pure reductionistic materialistic non-sense : not worth responding to, sorry

You did not even address the potential repercussions of your own hypothesis i displayed for you


Just this :

Do you think that your mother's love for you , that of your family , that of your probable wife & kids ...is just chemistry ?

You do feel pain , joy , sadness , love ......those cannot be reduced to chemistry , human consciousness neither

If man is just chemistry : free will, freedom, justice , ideals, values , consciousness, evolution itself, our knowledge itself .............morality ethics .......are just illusions then

we do not know what free will is for example , we do not know where the free will does start & where it ends , we do know that we are both determined & free , we do know that the free will does exist : your own daily life & the fact that you do voluntarily participate to this forum for example are a matter of free will, for the most part at least


[b]What cannot be apprehended empirically does not mean it does not exist , silly
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03-01-2012, 05:13 PM
RE: Philosophy & The Matrix : Return To The Source
(03-01-2012 12:33 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  Pure reductionistic materialistic non-sense : not worth responding to, sorry

You did not even address the potential repercussions of your own hypothesis i displayed for you


Just this :

Do you think that your mother's love for you , that of your family , that of your probable wife & kids ...is just chemistry ?

You do feel pain , joy , sadness , love ......those cannot be reduced to chemistry , human consciousness neither

If man is just chemistry : free will, freedom, justice , ideals, values , consciousness, evolution itself, our knowledge itself .............morality ethics .......are just illusions then

we do not know what free will is for example , we do not know where the free will does start & where it ends , we do know that we are both determined & free , we do know that the free will does exist : your own daily life & the fact that you do voluntarily participate to this forum for example are a matter of free will, for the most part at least


What cannot be apprehended empirically does not mean it does not exist , silly

It's not clear how any of the "repercussions of my hypothesis" you display are repercussions at all. We know that love, morality, and ethics are real things because we experience them. How does it follow that just because these things arise from complex chemical reactions they no longer hold meaning?

The fact that a painting is made of atoms is not even relevant to the fact that it is beautiful.

Furthermore, it's not even clear how saying that humans have a "soul" apart from their body offers any advantage to explaining the phenomena of love and other emotions. If love because of chemicals has no meaning, why is that love because of soul does?
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