Phuck the English language.
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08-05-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: Phuck the English language.
(08-05-2014 10:58 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  I also have to admit that I'm biased, as I hate how you guys butchered Greek.

That's what the French keep saying too; English heard, picked up and butchered. Drinking Beverage

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08-05-2014, 11:27 AM
RE: Phuck the English language.
(07-05-2014 11:36 PM)Thammuz Wrote:  Don't bitch until you tried to master german as a foreign language Tongue

Atleast I just got an "A" in my first year of latin.

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08-05-2014, 11:28 AM
RE: Phuck the English language.
(08-05-2014 11:09 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 01:21 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Incomparably rich vocabulary? That's probably because half of the words are not even English Drinking Beverage

They are now. Drinking Beverage

Yeap, I just said that in my previous post Tongue

The statement you quoted was simply a hyperbole for the sake of emphasis Rolleyes

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08-05-2014, 11:44 AM
RE: Phuck the English language.
(08-05-2014 10:58 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  All European languages have a similar structure (which is only natural) and that's why I mentioned them. Apart from English and Greek, I have studied Ancient Greek, Latin, French, Spanish and Japanese, and (with the exception of Japanese) they are very close to English variety-wise.

Well sure - modern Romance languages are a sampling of a dialect continuum which used to stretch from Portugal to Romania (although the northernmost and southernmost were wiped out). Greek is more distinctive, since its closest linguistic relatives are to its east, not west - the extinct Anatolian languages, iirc. The Baltic languages are also outliers Europe, discounting unrelated languages like Hungarian or Basque.

(08-05-2014 10:58 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Ok, there is a variety alright, but only in structure, not in meaning. For example, the Present Perfect Progressive tense can simply be substituted with just Present in Greek, because the time expressions alone can evoke the meaning that English needs a whole tense for. The kids I teach often find it hard to distinguish between the tenses, and quite reasonably, they ask me things like "why not just use Present then?"

But "I am" and "I have been" have very clearly different meanings - to a native English speaker, at least!

Nobody needs tenses as such at all, true enough; in Japanese or Chinese they seem to manage fine with just "I go yesterday", "I go today", "I go tomorrow" (but they'd also drop the pronoun...).

(08-05-2014 10:58 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 07:36 AM)cjlr Wrote:  All English words are English.

What are Anglo-Saxon are the fundamentals, but we're not too proud to borrow from our Norman overlords. How many words did you guys keep from Turkish? Tongue

Yeap, English words are English words, no matter where they come from. It's just that my inner linguist can't really appreciate the rich vocabulary when 80% of it is borrowed (and that's probably because I'm Greek and there's nothing you can't say or explain in Greek with sufficient clarity Tongue ).

Ah, but do you have multiple words for everything?
Cool

(08-05-2014 10:58 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  I also have to admit that I'm biased, as I hate how you guys butchered Greek. I don't understand what the problem is with pronouncing the "p" is "psychology" or "pneumonia". It is right there dammit! Laugh out load

Funnily enough it's only Russians I've heard pronounce Greek loanwords and imports "properly" (when speaking English). Maybe it's the more direct connection? Greek is to Russian as Latin is to English.

(08-05-2014 10:58 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Oh and, yeah, we kept many Turkish words, but Greek is perhaps 80% Ancient Greek, 18% Turkish and 2% everything else.

Wasn't settling the modern form of the language a hugely politicised and contentious process?

English is definitely unique among modern languages so far as it's unregulated by any national or international body.

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08-05-2014, 11:45 AM
RE: Phuck the English language.
(08-05-2014 11:28 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 11:09 AM)Chas Wrote:  They are now. Drinking Beverage

Yeap, I just said that in my previous post Tongue

The statement you quoted was simply a hyperbole for the sake of emphasis Rolleyes

Ah, "hyperbole" and "emphasis".

Good old Greek English words.
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08-05-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: Phuck the English language.
(08-05-2014 11:44 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Ah, but do you have multiple words for everything?
Cool

Yes we do Cool

(08-05-2014 11:44 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Funnily enough it's only Russians I've heard pronounce Greek loanwords and imports "properly" (when speaking English). Maybe it's the more direct connection? Greek is to Russian as Latin is to English.

I don't really know much about Russian but I'm pretty sure our languages are not really connected Consider

(08-05-2014 11:44 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Wasn't settling the modern form of the language a hugely politicised and contentious process?

English is definitely unique among modern languages so far as it's unregulated by any national or international body.

Yes, and such issues come up even today. It didn't happen in English because it's irrelevant there. It's a language governed by chaos. Greek is a strictly structured language and it's only natural that the issue ends up being political, because it affects the way we learn and perceive our language.

It was recently proposed that we stop using all the different diphthongs with the same sound, in order to make it easier for kids to learn. Thing is, those diphthongs carry meaning that survived for thousands of years, you can't just erase it.
What would happen in English if they decided to do something like that? Well, nothing. It would still be a language of chaos and absurdity.

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08-05-2014, 01:52 PM
RE: Phuck the English language.
(08-05-2014 11:57 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  I don't really know much about Russian but I'm pretty sure our languages are not really connected Consider

Not linguistically-genetically.

But Constantinople was the place people looked to emulate in the early Rus days. The Russians (and other peoples who converted to Greek Orthodoxy instead of Catholicism) took a lot of their philosophical, theological, and proto-scientific words from Greek the way the (for example) Carolingian scholars and their successors drew from Latin. That's what I meant.

(08-05-2014 11:57 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Yes, and such issues come up even today. It didn't happen in English because it's irrelevant there. It's a language governed by chaos. Greek is a strictly structured language and it's only natural that the issue ends up being political, because it affects the way we learn and perceive our language.

Grammatical gender is certainly an ordered phenomenon, but hardly a useful, consistent, or systematic one!

Enforced linguistic conformity has a whiff of fascism about it, to those of us in the anglosphere...

(08-05-2014 11:57 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  It was recently proposed that we stop using all the different diphthongs with the same sound, in order to make it easier for kids to learn. Thing is, those diphthongs carry meaning that survived for thousands of years, you can't just erase it.
What would happen in English if they decided to do something like that? Well, nothing. It would still be a language of chaos and absurdity.

English is likewise littered when orthographical artifacts - right on down to the "silent" Greek 'p' (and the 'k' in knight and the 'gh' in through... there are many thousands of examples). That will never change precisely because there is no governing body to force the issue. But that is, in any case, a matter of orthography, and not grammar - representation rather than structure.

That's the same argument that surrounded the simplification of Chinese characters - the simplification is, ostensibly, "simpler", but obscures the long history of semantic and phonetic connections between different hanzi.

But "absurdity" is, rather, an absurd characterisation. Certainly no natural language is any more predictable; just more or less structured in any given respect. The alternative is for everyone to speak lojban...

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08-05-2014, 04:58 PM
RE: Phuck the English language.
(07-05-2014 10:16 AM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  PHUCK THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE AND ALL OF IT'S STUPID RULES!
PHUCK THE METAPHORS. PHUCK THE PRONOUNS! PHUCK THE ARBITRARY ILLOGICAL RULES! (I'M NOT SAYING FUCK SO I CAN JUST MAKE FUN OF IT.) PHUCK SPELLING, PHUCK IT ALL!
Also, yes, I know.
Insert "CapsLockLol" image.

The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c." Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like fotograf" 20 persent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by " v".

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer.

Ze drem vil finali kum tru!

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08-05-2014, 05:03 PM
RE: Phuck the English language.
(08-05-2014 04:58 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 10:16 AM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  PHUCK THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE AND ALL OF IT'S STUPID RULES!
PHUCK THE METAPHORS. PHUCK THE PRONOUNS! PHUCK THE ARBITRARY ILLOGICAL RULES! (I'M NOT SAYING FUCK SO I CAN JUST MAKE FUN OF IT.) PHUCK SPELLING, PHUCK IT ALL!
Also, yes, I know.
Insert "CapsLockLol" image.

The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c." Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like fotograf" 20 persent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by " v".

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer.

Ze drem vil finali kum tru!

Well I'll be, it be came Germanic.

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08-05-2014, 09:58 PM
RE: Phuck the English language.
(08-05-2014 04:58 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 10:16 AM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  PHUCK THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE AND ALL OF IT'S STUPID RULES!
PHUCK THE METAPHORS. PHUCK THE PRONOUNS! PHUCK THE ARBITRARY ILLOGICAL RULES! (I'M NOT SAYING FUCK SO I CAN JUST MAKE FUN OF IT.) PHUCK SPELLING, PHUCK IT ALL!
Also, yes, I know.
Insert "CapsLockLol" image.

The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c." Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like fotograf" 20 persent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by " v".

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer.

Ze drem vil finali kum tru!
That's only slightly difficult to read because we're not acclimated to it.

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