Picking up girls or boys
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
27-02-2017, 04:22 AM
RE: Picking up girls or boys
(27-02-2017 03:31 AM)levani Wrote:  But I believe, we, humans, cannot love truly somebody, who doesn't share the values of the group that we belong to.


(27-02-2017 03:31 AM)levani Wrote:  Do you guys agree that even atheists tend to love other atheists more than they love christians or other people, from other groups?

Atheist is just a label, it's not really a group. We don't meet up for church or bible study or anything.
Sure there might be some "atheist" related groups out there, but I'd think that most of us don't care for that. I mean, we don't join "I don't believe in fairies" groups, so why would we join a "I don't believe in gods" group?
But then again, I'm from NZ, there's no big deal about being an atheist here. From what I gather on these forums, some people from certain locations (especially in USA - bible belt) get hugely mistreated and stay hidden or isolated. So for them perhaps an atheist group is very important.

But, yeah, I don't really like exclusive groups, such as religions, or political party groups, whites only or men only golf courses or stupid stuff like that. I try to avoid us vs them mentality.
I don't really care which way you vote, or what religion you belong to, those things are your personal business.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2017, 04:38 AM
RE: Picking up girls or boys
(27-02-2017 03:31 AM)levani Wrote:  Maybe some of you have read my 'about me' and already knows that I'm a christian universalist, who believes in redemption of all. Even the most vilest of people.

Meh. Compassion and empathy don't need the supernatural to be effective.


(27-02-2017 03:31 AM)levani Wrote:  And personally, this belief makes me to respect the other person, and not to harm anybody. Not to use them for my personal interests and etc.
And I've seen christians who only respect and love the other christians, and I've seen atheists who only respect and love the other atheists, and it's very sad.

People are complicated.

Ignoring for the moment that we appear to be evolutionary predisposed to objectification, compartmentalization, and group/kin selection.

I love my very southern baptist father, but I don't respect him. There are certain thing about him that I admire, certain things that I can respect; but on the whole I do not respect him, and I especially do not respect his beliefs. He's entitled to his beliefs, and while I acknowledge them, I also reserve the right to go "Are you fucking kidding me?". Respecting everyone and their beliefs is what gets you in trouble.



(27-02-2017 03:31 AM)levani Wrote:  But I believe, we, humans, cannot love truly somebody, who doesn't share the values of the group that we belong to. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But that's what I see everywhere I look.

I'll have to disagree with you, see above.


(27-02-2017 03:31 AM)levani Wrote:  And being a christian universalist, really frees me from the groups and lets me love everybody. . in every group.

Being in your group frees you from the constraints of being in a group...

Wait, what?

I hope that's just lost in translation, because that's nonsensical and contradictory as currently written. Either that, or entirely oblivious and lacking in self awareness. Freudian slip perhaps?


(27-02-2017 03:31 AM)levani Wrote:  Do you guys agree that even atheists tend to love other atheists more than they love christians or other people, from other groups?

I think that most people prefer the company of like minded individuals. Reinforcement and agreement is comforting after all. Probably why I'm hanging out on this forum, instead of one for Christian dominionists, pseudo-science, anti-vaxxers, numerology, conspiracy theories, or any number of in-groups built around beliefs and opinions I vehemently object to.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2017, 04:49 AM
RE: Picking up girls or boys
(27-02-2017 12:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 05:17 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I don't think going to bars is a good way to find a rship. Can it happen, sure. I just think most people who go to bars are out looking for a fun night out with friends and not to find "the one." Imo, if you are looking for a rship, join groups or take classes that you are interested in. That way you have the potential to meet someone with similar interests outside of the bar atmosphere (most people are drinking anyway, so you don't really get a sense of their true personalities.) It's also really hard to have a conversation and get to know someone in a loud bar.

Sweetie -- you just painted the perfect picture of the difference between men and women.


Men don't go to bars looking for a relationship.

They're looking for moisture.


Big Grin

Women don't go to bars looking for relationships either.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jennybee's post
27-02-2017, 04:59 AM
RE: Picking up girls or boys
(27-02-2017 03:31 AM)levani Wrote:  Wow. This is so cool & interesting to see all these personal views about this topic.
Thank you guys. Heart

Maybe some of you have read my 'about me' and already knows that I'm a christian universalist, who believes in redemption of all. Even the most vilest of people.
And personally,
this belief makes me to respect the other person, and not to harm anybody. Not to use them for my personal interests and etc.
And I've seen christians who only respect and love the other christians,
and I've seen atheists who only respect and love the other atheists,
and it's very sad.
But I believe, we, humans, cannot love truly somebody, who doesn't share the values of the group that we belong to. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But that's what I see everywhere I look.
And being a christian universalist, really frees me from the groups and lets me love everybody. . in every group.

Do you guys agree that even atheists tend to love other atheists more than they love christians or other people, from other groups?

I don't agree that atheists love other atheists more than other groups of people. I have friends from all different religious backgrounds. And I care about all of them immensely.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2017, 05:18 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2017 05:24 AM by levani.)
RE: Picking up girls or boys
I had hard time believing that all people deserve love. No matter what.
And when you have favourites, it's a very scary thing, y'know?
-Because for a group-member, the person is defined by the group. What the group says it becomes the truth.
For example,
an atheist, might find it funny to make fun of the christians or other religious people. And try to dehumanise them. And call them „stupid!“ & „idiot“ and things like these.
We need losers to feel better about ourselves.
And christians are doing the same. They dehumanise everybody who doesn't belong to their church.
And for me,
It is a sign of arrogance.
Because, if a person think that he/ she has this superior knowledge, and is so smart,
then he/ she must be so happy and must have peace with themselves.
And if you are an atheist, who likes to mock religious people and expose their stupidity all the time, maybe you're not so smart after all.
Because, the sign of a higher education, is love!
It's sacrifice and love for the week.
If atheists got it right, then they must be the most loving people on the planet earth.
And if the christians got it right, then they must be the most loving people.
But if there is so much fight and humiliation, then it's not working.

And yes, my topic was „Picking up girls or boys“ and i believe it's evil.
And I believe most of us wouldn't want our daughters or sons - used as objects.
And that we would fight against all people who would try to harm our children by making them objects of their pleasure.
And I believe this dehumanization comes from the fact, that we don't believe we are created by a loving God.
And at first sight, we we are right not to believe in him.
Because where is he hiding? -how can we trust somebody who's hiding all the time?
And the reason I trust God it's this: He is hiding in the least of these people. .that we see every day. -Matthew 25:40
Sometimes, he is a baby in a manger,
Sometimes, he is a curious stranger who asks strange questions, -Luke 24:17
Sometimes, he is a gardener, who cleans the graves and help women cry -John 20:16
And always, he is drawing all people to himself. -John 12:32
Inspiring us to love, he even uses the blind and the lame and the least of these people, asking love out of us,
melting our cold-cold hearts.
And he made this space and time just for one reason: so that we would have an alternative reality, where we rule the world and do whatever we please. And to see, that we can't help the whole world, because we don't want to. Because we don't love enough and we only care about ourselves. And to see that we are but beasts.
-Ecclesiastes 3:19
And to long for justice and love. .long for him.
And this space and this time is just a place to be the heroes, y'know? -Cause nobody need our help in heaven.
This is our chance to be the heroes.
And he showed us how, when he wrapped himself in a tiny little Jesus and lay in our manger. And walked among us as a humble king, who's willing to serve, and give himself away for love.
And the only reason he came 2000 years ago, it was for the day of his crucifixion. He let us kill him, and then forgave us when nobody asked for it, -Luke 23:34
And now we know how beautiful can love be.
And how big can it be.
And by looking at Jesus Christ, we also can be like him in this world.
And mock only egocentric actions and search to give ourselves for the week. That's the meaning.
Some say it's the survival of the fittest.
But it's actually the sacrifice of the fittest for the week.

I know I sound crazy.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2017, 05:23 AM
RE: Picking up girls or boys
(27-02-2017 03:31 AM)levani Wrote:  Wow. This is so cool & interesting to see all these personal views about this topic.
Thank you guys. Heart

Maybe some of you have read my 'about me' and already knows that I'm a christian universalist, who believes in redemption of all. Even the most vilest of people.
And personally,
this belief makes me to respect the other person, and not to harm anybody. Not to use them for my personal interests and etc.
And I've seen christians who only respect and love the other christians,
and I've seen atheists who only respect and love the other atheists,
and it's very sad.
But I believe, we, humans, cannot love truly somebody, who doesn't share the values of the group that we belong to. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But that's what I see everywhere I look.
And being a christian universalist, really frees me from the groups and lets me love everybody. . in every group.

Do you guys agree that even atheists tend to love other atheists more than they love christians or other people, from other groups?

Depends what you mean by 'love'. On a scale of 'people I would run into a burning building to save', to 'people I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire' there are very few people at either end, and I think if you were to plot it it would turn out diamond shape (more people towards the 'building' end than the 'not pissing' end).

Where anyone fell into the scale would depend on a whole lot of factors, religion or lack of being a relatively minor one (and how religion manifests itself in someone would be way more important that actually having religion in the first place).
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2017, 05:53 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2017 06:32 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Picking up girls or boys
(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  I had hard time believing that all people deserve love. No matter what.
And when you have favourites, it's a very scary thing, y'know?

Nope. My favorite pizza is white chicken with mushrooms and caramelized onions. That doesn't make me afraid of Hawaiian.

Hawaiian just sucks because it has pineapples. Tongue


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  -Because for a group-member, the person is defined by the group. What the group says it becomes the truth.

Sure, for a cult.

Have you ever tried dictating 'truth' to a group of skeptics?

No? Have you ever tried herding cats? Drinking Beverage


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  For example, an atheist, might find it funny to make fun of the christians or other religious people. And try to dehumanise them. And call them „stupid!“ & „idiot“ and things like these.

People can be assholes, and atheists are people too.


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  We need losers to feel better about ourselves.
And christians are doing the same. They dehumanise everybody who doesn't belong to their church.

That's is, once again, painting with an incredibly overly broad brush.

Also, your continued denigration of other 'groups' and their hatefulness, in comparison to your own supposed love filled enlightenment, is not lost on me. You might be oblivious to your apparent hypocrisy, but I'm not.


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  And for me, It is a sign of arrogance.
Because, if a person think that he/ she has this superior knowledge, and is so smart, then he/ she must be so happy and must have peace with themselves.

Knowledge =/= Happiness


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  And if you are an atheist, who likes to mock religious people and expose their stupidity all the time, maybe you're not so smart after all.

Being an assholes doesn't make you factually incorrect.


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  Because, the sign of a higher education, is love!

Weeping

No it's not. Love is product of empathy, not a measure of intelligence or education.


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  It's sacrifice and love for the week.
If atheists got it right, then they must be the most loving people on the planet earth.
And if the christians got it right, then they must be the most loving people.
But if there is so much fight and humiliation, then it's not working.

Not necessarily. The only thing that unites atheists is their unbelief. There is no stipulation about intelligence, level of education, empathy, skepticism, or any other criteria.

Your brush is, one again, incredibly broad, and belies your own lack of familiarity with the very topics you're attempting to discuss.


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  And yes, my topic was „Picking up girls or boys“ and i believe it's evil.

Congrats?


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  And I believe most of us wouldn't want our daughters or sons - used as objects.

We are all objects. Objectification itself ranges from necessary for survival, to ethically detrimental and harmful. The subject is not so nearly black and white as you'd like to think it is.


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  And that we would fight against all people who would try to harm our children by making them objects of their pleasure.
And I believe this dehumanization comes from the fact, that we don't believe we are created by a loving God.

Remember that part earlier when I said that I reserve the right to go "Are you fucking kidding me?"

Yeah, about that. Dehumanization stems from a lack of belief in being special snowflakes make by a pan-dimensional invisible space wizard? You can go fuck yourself.

Also, please refrain from misusing the word 'fact'. What you wrote was an assertion, not a fact.


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  And at first sight, we we are right not to believe in him.
Because where is he hiding? -how can we trust somebody who's hiding all the time?

An invisible god who never interacts with the reality is identical to a nonexistent one.


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  And the reason I trust God it's this: He is hiding in the least of these people. .that we see every day. -Matthew 25:40
Sometimes, he is a baby in a manger,
Sometimes, he is a curious stranger who asks strange questions, -Luke 24:17
Sometimes, he is a gardener, who cleans the graves and help women cry -John 20:16
And always, he is drawing all people to himself. -John 12:32
Inspiring us to love, he even uses the blind and the lame and the least of these people, asking love out of us,
melting our cold-cold hearts.
And he made this space and time just for one reason: so that we would have an alternative reality, where we rule the world and do whatever we please. And to see, that we can't help the whole world, because we don't want to. Because we don't love enough and we only care about ourselves. And to see that we are but beasts.
-Ecclesiastes 3:19
And to long for justice and love. .long for him.
And this space and this time is just a place to be the heroes, y'know? -Cause nobody need our help in heaven.
This is our chance to be the heroes.
And he showed us how, when he wrapped himself in a tiny little Jesus and lay in our manger. And walked among us as a humble king, who's willing to serve, and give himself away for love.
And the only reason he came 2000 years ago, it was for the day of his crucifixion. He let us kill him, and then forgave us when nobody asked for it, -Luke 23:34

Nobody here gives a flying fuck about quotations taken from an ancient bronze age book of fables that has been edited for political gain, voted on by committee, mistranslated, with almost an uncountable number of errors introduced by copyists. You might as well quote Doctor Seuss to support your assertions about quantum mechanics. Dodgy


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  And now we know how beautiful can love be.

Have you read Shakespeare? He wrote brilliant prose about love, and without all the genocide and rape too!


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  And how big can it be.
And by looking at Jesus Christ, we also can be like him in this world.
And mock only egocentric actions and search to give ourselves for the week. That's the meaning.
Some say it's the survival of the fittest.
But it's actually the sacrifice of the fittest for the week.

Just Remember: When you ask yourself "what would Jesus do?", flipping over tables and attacking innocent people with a whip, or causing a fig tree to wither and die, are all within the realm of possibilities. Drinking Beverage


(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  I know I sound crazy.

I'd say you sound both uneducated and incredibly credulous.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like EvolutionKills's post
27-02-2017, 05:59 AM
RE: Picking up girls or boys
Wasn't there another prat who kept on going on about loving everyone, to the point that the word love becomes meaningless? Are you a sock, Levani?

Regardless, you nauseate me.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
27-02-2017, 06:56 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2017 08:23 AM by jennybee.)
RE: Picking up girls or boys
(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  I had hard time believing that all people deserve love. No matter what.
And when you have favourites, it's a very scary thing, y'know?
-Because for a group-member, the person is defined by the group. What the group says it becomes the truth.
For example,
an atheist, might find it funny to make fun of the christians or other religious people. And try to dehumanise them. And call them „stupid!“ & „idiot“ and things like these.
We need losers to feel better about ourselves.
And christians are doing the same. They dehumanise everybody who doesn't belong to their church.
And for me,
It is a sign of arrogance.
Because, if a person think that he/ she has this superior knowledge, and is so smart,
then he/ she must be so happy and must have peace with themselves.
And if you are an atheist, who likes to mock religious people and expose their stupidity all the time, maybe you're not so smart after all.
Because, the sign of a higher education, is love!
It's sacrifice and love for the week.
If atheists got it right, then they must be the most loving people on the planet earth.
And if the christians got it right, then they must be the most loving people.
But if there is so much fight and humiliation, then it's not working.

And yes, my topic was „Picking up girls or boys“ and i believe it's evil.
And I believe most of us wouldn't want our daughters or sons - used as objects.
And that we would fight against all people who would try to harm our children by making them objects of their pleasure.
And I believe this dehumanization comes from the fact, that we don't believe we are created by a loving God.
And at first sight, we we are right not to believe in him.
Because where is he hiding? -how can we trust somebody who's hiding all the time?
And the reason I trust God it's this: He is hiding in the least of these people. .that we see every day. -Matthew 25:40
Sometimes, he is a baby in a manger,
Sometimes, he is a curious stranger who asks strange questions, -Luke 24:17
Sometimes, he is a gardener, who cleans the graves and help women cry -John 20:16
And always, he is drawing all people to himself. -John 12:32
Inspiring us to love, he even uses the blind and the lame and the least of these people, asking love out of us,
melting our cold-cold hearts.
And he made this space and time just for one reason: so that we would have an alternative reality, where we rule the world and do whatever we please. And to see, that we can't help the whole world, because we don't want to. Because we don't love enough and we only care about ourselves. And to see that we are but beasts.
-Ecclesiastes 3:19
And to long for justice and love. .long for him.
And this space and this time is just a place to be the heroes, y'know? -Cause nobody need our help in heaven.
This is our chance to be the heroes.
And he showed us how, when he wrapped himself in a tiny little Jesus and lay in our manger. And walked among us as a humble king, who's willing to serve, and give himself away for love.
And the only reason he came 2000 years ago, it was for the day of his crucifixion. He let us kill him, and then forgave us when nobody asked for it, -Luke 23:34
And now we know how beautiful can love be.
And how big can it be.
And by looking at Jesus Christ, we also can be like him in this world.
And mock only egocentric actions and search to give ourselves for the week. That's the meaning.
Some say it's the survival of the fittest.
But it's actually the sacrifice of the fittest for the week.

I know I sound crazy.

So really your initial post was just a PSA for Jesus. Dodgy

If you know you sound crazy, don't you think it might be time to re-examine your beliefs?

Jesus also taught that we should leave our families to follow him and love him more than our parents, more than our own children. And he also did not believe in washing hands before meals. Do you know how many diseases and illnesses can be spread that way? Especially during Jesus' lifetime when modern medical advancements were not available?

Love won't protect you from salmonella. Modern medical treatments will. (And washing hands can help prevent it from occurring in the first place.)

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like jennybee's post
27-02-2017, 06:57 AM
RE: Picking up girls or boys
(27-02-2017 05:18 AM)levani Wrote:  I had hard time believing that all people deserve love. No matter what.

They don't unless you cheapen the meaning of "love" into something worthless.

Quote:And when you have favourites, it's a very scary thing, y'know?

No it's a normal human thing. If you insist on treating everyone with the same emotion then you are doing it wrong.

Quote:-Because for a group-member, the person is defined by the group. What the group says it becomes the truth.

For some perhaps. Some of us can think for ourselves. I don't know of any group I've ever belonged to where I thought everything they said was true.

Quote:For example,
an atheist, might find it funny to make fun of the christians or other religious people. And try to dehumanise them. And call them „stupid!“ & „idiot“ and things like these.

It can be funny to make fun of the religious and they often dehumanize themselves so I don't have to do that. What you don't seem to get is that what is being attacked are the ideas and claims and not the people. Beliefs do NOT deserve automatic respect.

Quote:We need losers to feel better about ourselves.

For somebody who claims to want to "love" everybody you have a pretty low opinion of people in general.

Quote:And christians are doing the same. They dehumanise everybody who doesn't belong to their church.
And for me,
It is a sign of arrogance.

I think it's a sign of insecurity and fear.

Quote:Because, if a person think that he/ she has this superior knowledge, and is so smart,
then he/ she must be so happy and must have peace with themselves.

I don't see how those are related.

Quote:And if you are an atheist, who likes to mock religious people and expose their stupidity all the time, maybe you're not so smart after all.

Mocking ideas that deserve to be mocked is good.

Quote:Because, the sign of a higher education, is love!

No, the sign of a higher education is a string of letters after your name. You really need to (a) stop conflating education and intelligence and (b) explain why you think they correlate to love.

Quote:It's sacrifice and love for the week.

I prefer the weekend (I know, cheap shot). I might grant that intelligence allows for greater insight into why compassion and empathy have value but it can't make you feel those things and I still don't know what you mean by "love".

Quote:If atheists got it right, then they must be the most loving people on the planet earth.

Atheists don't accept any claims of a god existing. That's it. The philosophy that each individual adopts instead of a religion may differ dramatically.

Quote:And if the christians got it right, then they must be the most loving people.
But if there is so much fight and humiliation, then it's not working.

You need to explain "getting it right" and then how that ties to being loving. Your entire post seems like an explosion in a non-sequitur factory.

Quote:And yes, my topic was „Picking up girls or boys“ and i believe it's evil.
And I believe most of us wouldn't want our daughters or sons - used as objects.
And that we would fight against all people who would try to harm our children by making them objects of their pleasure.

If two individuals decide to "use" each other and neither has expectations that the other intends to betray then there is no "evil" involved.

Quote:And I believe this dehumanization comes from the fact, that we don't believe we are created by a loving God.

I don't see how that makes any difference.

Quote:And at first sight, we we are right not to believe in him.
Because where is he hiding? -how can we trust somebody who's hiding all the time?
And the reason I trust God it's this: He is hiding in the least of these people. .that we see every day. -Matthew 25:40
Sometimes, he is a baby in a manger,
Sometimes, he is a curious stranger who asks strange questions, -Luke 24:17
Sometimes, he is a gardener, who cleans the graves and help women cry -John 20:16
And always, he is drawing all people to himself. -John 12:32

Quoting bible verses at atheists is probably the least effective tactic you can use. Many, if not most, have read it and discarded it as a source of truth.

Nothing in what you are talking about points to a "god" as the best explanation. Human empathy and interaction is natural for an evolved social species. No god required.

Quote:...full on preacher mode crap deleted...

Preaching will get you nowhere. Let's have some evidence for the claims.

Quote:I know I sound crazy.

You sound immature and thoroughly indoctrinated

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like unfogged's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: