Pigeon Toss
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16-01-2013, 05:18 PM
RE: Pigeon Toss
I was told that..I certainly not going to vouche for it tho

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16-01-2013, 05:19 PM
RE: Pigeon Toss
(16-01-2013 05:10 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Vera, while I'm not as sympathetic as you, I don't derive pleasure from animal suffering; nor do I practice it.

I'm just saying, I can understand the "why" and "how" this came to be. Pigeons are loathsome, annoying creatures, and I can understand why people would express their frustration with their annoying nature in this way - in the say way why I can understand why people do the "Rattlesnake Roundup".

If there is an animal in the house (spider, snake, anole, gecko), I'll usually catch it and put it outside.

Not roaches or flies, though. I smash them.
KC, I didn't say you were unsympathetic. I was ranting in general.

And you're still kinda missing the point. It is this same mentality that leads to brutalities like bullfighting, bear-baiting and all blood sports in general. No matter how "justified" the killing of a living being is, doing it for fun is sick, as is deriving pleasure from its pain. And this is exactly this mentality that I do not get (and I do not want to get).

After all, sympathy and empathy aren't contingent on like or dislike and that's why they're the best and least selfish thing we have as human beings. Give it up willingly and you've lost a huge part of what makes us so wonderful, despite all our flaws as a species.

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16-01-2013, 05:28 PM
RE: Pigeon Toss
(16-01-2013 05:19 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(16-01-2013 05:10 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Vera, while I'm not as sympathetic as you, I don't derive pleasure from animal suffering; nor do I practice it.

I'm just saying, I can understand the "why" and "how" this came to be. Pigeons are loathsome, annoying creatures, and I can understand why people would express their frustration with their annoying nature in this way - in the say way why I can understand why people do the "Rattlesnake Roundup".

If there is an animal in the house (spider, snake, anole, gecko), I'll usually catch it and put it outside.

Not roaches or flies, though. I smash them.
KC, I didn't say you were unsympathetic. I was ranting in general.

And you're still kinda missing the point. It is this same mentality that leads to brutalities like bullfighting, bear-baiting and all blood sports in general. No matter how "justified" the killing of a living being is, doing it for fun is sick, as is deriving pleasure from its pain. And this is exactly this mentality that I do not get (and I do not want to get).

After all, sympathy and empathy aren't contingent on like or dislike and that's why they're the best and least selfish thing we have as human beings. Give it up willingly and you've lost a huge part of what makes us so wonderful, despite all our flaws as a species.
Being empathetic requires you to identify with all emotions - even the unsavory ones.

I'm empathetic to their feelings of extreme dislike. I'm also understanding as to how this, cock fighting, bear baiting, dog fighting, etc comes to be.

Saying that you never want to understand this, while it isn't negative towards the situation, it isn't positive either. Ignoring and refusing to understand the uglier parts of human nature and emotions thwarts the progress of understanding it and eventually remedying it.

Condemning it, while the easiest thing to do, is the least effective. Understanding it and trying to relate to it produces far better dividends.

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16-01-2013, 05:34 PM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2013 05:39 PM by Vera.)
RE: Pigeon Toss
(16-01-2013 05:28 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Being empathetic requires you to identify with all emotions - even the unsavory ones.

I'm empathetic to their feelings of extreme dislike. I'm also understanding as to how this, cock fighting, bear baiting, dog fighting, etc comes to be.

Saying that you never want to understand this, while it isn't negative towards the situation, it isn't positive either. Ignoring and refusing to understand the uglier parts of human nature and emotions thwarts the progress of understanding it and eventually remedying it.

Condemning it, while the easiest thing to do, is the least effective. Understanding it and trying to relate to it produces far better dividends.
I was focusing more on sympathy though. And it doesn't require anything. Just the desire to alleviate the suffering of others or not to cause it in the first place.

And I'm not closing my eyes or stopping my ears. I've read more books than I can count, trying to understand where the fascination of pain lies.

Didn't manage to. Can you tell me then why do we derive pleasure from the pain of others?

And yes, sometimes condemning is the only thing we have. I have no desire whatsoever to understand bullfighting. I want it banned. I want people who torture animals sent to jail.

EDIT: So you're empathetic to someone disliking someone/something else and dislike is justification enough for torturing an often defenseless creature? I dislike cruel people, am I justified in tying them up in my basement and killing them slowly for my pleasure?

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17-01-2013, 04:19 AM
RE: Pigeon Toss
I'd sure as hell think twice before putting out rat poison... I have had a family of mice in the house, but I put out traps that capture them so I could put them outside. I'm kind like that. Smile

My cats also bring in plenty of mice, but for some reason always leave them alive, so I have those traps out all the time in case they bring one in when I'm out.

I've never seen a rat that isn't a pet though... I guess they just aren't that common round here.

Anyway, I don't consider pigeons to be pests, I do, however, consider humans to be pests. Wink

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19-01-2013, 06:42 PM
RE: Pigeon Toss
OMG. Pigeons are my favourite! A disease- pffft! Have you looked around? Humans are an effing disease to this planet, too. Heart

I love the lil' messenger birds!

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19-01-2013, 07:41 PM
RE: Pigeon Toss
In Pennsylvania we had a 65 year tradition of the Higgens pigeon shoot.
Then of course the bitchers and complainers had to ruin things for this town just like they do all over this damn country. I'm not saying I like shooting pigeons I just hate bitchers and complainers. They are the same people that are offended by everything. grrrr I hate em.

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19-01-2013, 07:58 PM
RE: Pigeon Toss
(19-01-2013 07:41 PM)smidgen Wrote:  In Pennsylvania we had a 65 year tradition of the Higgens pigeon shoot.
Then of course the bitchers and complainers had to ruin things for this town just like they do all over this damn country. I'm not saying I like shooting pigeons I just hate bitchers and complainers. They are the same people that are offended by everything. grrrr I hate em.


Pigeon shoots are not very sporting, and are really a workingman's version of the Victorian shooting day at a country manor. These were also not very sporting, they are just for the amusement of the guests.

Unless, of course, you are going to eat all those pigeons.

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19-01-2013, 08:20 PM
RE: Pigeon Toss
(19-01-2013 07:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-01-2013 07:41 PM)smidgen Wrote:  In Pennsylvania we had a 65 year tradition of the Higgens pigeon shoot.
Then of course the bitchers and complainers had to ruin things for this town just like they do all over this damn country. I'm not saying I like shooting pigeons I just hate bitchers and complainers. They are the same people that are offended by everything. grrrr I hate em.


Pigeon shoots are not very sporting, and are really a workingman's version of the Victorian shooting day at a country manor. These were also not very sporting, they are just for the amusement of the guests.

Unless, of course, you are going to eat all those pigeons.
Your talking about Pennsylvania rednecks. They get amused if they catch a big fish.

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19-01-2013, 08:39 PM
RE: Pigeon Toss
Me and animals kind of have an agreement.The way I see it; if it's in my house, I can kill it and dispose of it as I see fit. If I'm in it's house, it can do whatever it wants to me - kill me if that's what it needs to do. In my world I'm a human and I try to be humane about it, in the wild I'm an animal just like them. They often seem more humane to me when I'm in their world. Oh well.

Very few mice have died by my hand and I personally haven't even been shit on by any birds or other creatures seeking retribution for the animal kingdom because one of our brother rats lost his life in a home invasion. In my house they suck/ in their house, I suck.

I have been peed on by dogs, frogs, & turtles but I'm sure they were just happy to see me. Shy


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