Pitbulls
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14-02-2013, 09:45 AM
RE: Pitbulls
I saw this video in another thread, I think it's enlightening



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14-02-2013, 10:05 AM
RE: Pitbulls
Breeding for temperment is not the same as breeding for aggression. ANY healthy dog can be trained to be aggressive, and likewise ANY dog can be trained to be well tempered. the breeding of a dog increases or decreases the drive to adhere to the type of training. This is a very important difference that any skilled trainer recognizes and works with.

This sin't to say some breeds don't have more potential than others to be aggressive. But that aggression is caused by training, not breeding. The breeding makes pit bulls and their kin very powerful and determined dogs. This makes training them to be aggressive easy, since they will push through the worst of situations to accomplish what it's been taught to do. People who want aggressive dogs take advantage of this. As a result, many people get these dogs, and have an underlying fear that they are "naturally aggressive" and inadvertently teach the dog to be just that, simply by being intimidated by the dog. Being intimidated teaches the dog that it must be the pack leader so as to maintain a safe and stable pack.

Breeding for aggression has actually been a miserable failure for the most part. I bring up staffies again, because I know them well, but this applies to many breeds....Staffies were, at one point, used as fighting dogs. They ended up being miserable failures, because often, an owner couldn't even beat their dog into being aggressive. In fact, many fight trainers have ended up beating staffies to death in an attempt to bring out their aggression. And never once do they so much as nip. And this, from a dog "bred to be aggressive."

Not tryin to fight with ya Kell, but after 20 years experience, a large portion of that training pit bulls specifically, I really have a strong drive to educate people about the difference between aggressive dogs and aggressive breeds.

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14-02-2013, 10:14 AM
RE: Pitbulls
(14-02-2013 10:05 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Breeding for temperment is not the same as breeding for aggression. ANY healthy dog can be trained to be aggressive, and likewise ANY dog can be trained to be well tempered. the breeding of a dog increases or decreases the drive to adhere to the type of training. This is a very important difference that any skilled trainer recognizes and works with.

This sin't to say some breeds don't have more potential than others to be aggressive. But that aggression is caused by training, not breeding. The breeding makes pit bulls and their kin very powerful and determined dogs. This makes training them to be aggressive easy, since they will push through the worst of situations to accomplish what it's been taught to do. People who want aggressive dogs take advantage of this. As a result, many people get these dogs, and have an underlying fear that they are "naturally aggressive" and inadvertently teach the dog to be just that, simply by being intimidated by the dog. Being intimidated teaches the dog that it must be the pack leader so as to maintain a safe and stable pack.

Breeding for aggression has actually been a miserable failure for the most part. I bring up staffies again, because I know them well, but this applies to many breeds....Staffies were, at one point, used as fighting dogs. They ended up being miserable failures, because often, an owner couldn't even beat their dog into being aggressive. In fact, many fight trainers have ended up beating staffies to death in an attempt to bring out their aggression. And never once do they so much as nip. And this, from a dog "bred to be aggressive."

Not tryin to fight with ya Kell, but after 20 years experience, a large portion of that training pit bulls specifically, I really have a strong drive to educate people about the difference between aggressive dogs and aggressive breeds.
I want to buy a dog some time in the future, when I do I'll direct all my questions to you, I'm just telling you so you know Sleepy

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14-02-2013, 10:17 AM
RE: Pitbulls
(14-02-2013 10:14 AM)nach_in Wrote:  
(14-02-2013 10:05 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Breeding for temperment is not the same as breeding for aggression. ANY healthy dog can be trained to be aggressive, and likewise ANY dog can be trained to be well tempered. the breeding of a dog increases or decreases the drive to adhere to the type of training. This is a very important difference that any skilled trainer recognizes and works with.

This sin't to say some breeds don't have more potential than others to be aggressive. But that aggression is caused by training, not breeding. The breeding makes pit bulls and their kin very powerful and determined dogs. This makes training them to be aggressive easy, since they will push through the worst of situations to accomplish what it's been taught to do. People who want aggressive dogs take advantage of this. As a result, many people get these dogs, and have an underlying fear that they are "naturally aggressive" and inadvertently teach the dog to be just that, simply by being intimidated by the dog. Being intimidated teaches the dog that it must be the pack leader so as to maintain a safe and stable pack.

Breeding for aggression has actually been a miserable failure for the most part. I bring up staffies again, because I know them well, but this applies to many breeds....Staffies were, at one point, used as fighting dogs. They ended up being miserable failures, because often, an owner couldn't even beat their dog into being aggressive. In fact, many fight trainers have ended up beating staffies to death in an attempt to bring out their aggression. And never once do they so much as nip. And this, from a dog "bred to be aggressive."

Not tryin to fight with ya Kell, but after 20 years experience, a large portion of that training pit bulls specifically, I really have a strong drive to educate people about the difference between aggressive dogs and aggressive breeds.
I want to buy a dog some time in the future, when I do I'll direct all my questions to you, I'm just telling you so you know Sleepy


I'd like you to consider not buying a dog but instead rescuing one from a shelter or rescue society.

There are a lot of worthy dogs who need homes.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-02-2013, 10:22 AM
RE: Pitbulls
(14-02-2013 10:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-02-2013 10:14 AM)nach_in Wrote:  I want to buy a dog some time in the future, when I do I'll direct all my questions to you, I'm just telling you so you know Sleepy


I'd like you to consider not buying a dog but instead rescuing one from a shelter or rescue society.

There are a lot of worthy dogs who need homes.
Yes! of course, I might do that, I just want to get a dog some day, not now, I don't have the time or the energy to take proper care of a dog now. But when I do I'll try to adopt first Smile

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14-02-2013, 10:28 AM
RE: Pitbulls
Good call on a rescue. And feel free to ask me anything, anytime. Also, Dom is an excellent dog resource on the forum, so get her input too. We disagree on some aspects, but overall, I think we are of the same school of thought, and she really knows her shit.

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14-02-2013, 10:29 AM
RE: Pitbulls
yay! free help! Tongue

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14-02-2013, 10:32 AM
RE: Pitbulls
(14-02-2013 10:05 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Breeding for temperment is not the same as breeding for aggression. ANY healthy dog can be trained to be aggressive, and likewise ANY dog can be trained to be well tempered. the breeding of a dog increases or decreases the drive to adhere to the type of training. This is a very important difference that any skilled trainer recognizes and works with.

This sin't to say some breeds don't have more potential than others to be aggressive. But that aggression is caused by training, not breeding. The breeding makes pit bulls and their kin very powerful and determined dogs. This makes training them to be aggressive easy, since they will push through the worst of situations to accomplish what it's been taught to do. People who want aggressive dogs take advantage of this. As a result, many people get these dogs, and have an underlying fear that they are "naturally aggressive" and inadvertently teach the dog to be just that, simply by being intimidated by the dog. Being intimidated teaches the dog that it must be the pack leader so as to maintain a safe and stable pack.

Breeding for aggression has actually been a miserable failure for the most part. I bring up staffies again, because I know them well, but this applies to many breeds....Staffies were, at one point, used as fighting dogs. They ended up being miserable failures, because often, an owner couldn't even beat their dog into being aggressive. In fact, many fight trainers have ended up beating staffies to death in an attempt to bring out their aggression. And never once do they so much as nip. And this, from a dog "bred to be aggressive."

Not tryin to fight with ya Kell, but after 20 years experience, a large portion of that training pit bulls specifically, I really have a strong drive to educate people about the difference between aggressive dogs and aggressive breeds.


I agree with you.. I guess what I was trying to say was .. "more of a potential towards agression".. Owners need to know about the tendancies of whatever breed they choose.. GS's end up in rescue a lot because of this issue -- people don't see past the pretty dog and end up with more than they can handle. The defensive/agressive manner in GS's help with the work they are intended for - so the breeders that want the breed to stay true to its working nature look for this when selecting dogs to pair. They actually get pissy about the back yard breeders who try and breed the sharpness out of them to make better "pets".

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14-02-2013, 10:36 AM
RE: Pitbulls
Interesting little side note: does anyone know what dog breed is considered to have the highest potential for agression by most professional trainers? (Kellie and Dom, you probably already know, so let someone else guess! Smile )

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14-02-2013, 10:44 AM
RE: Pitbulls
(14-02-2013 10:36 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Interesting little side note: does anyone know what dog breed is considered to have the highest potential for agression by most professional trainers? (Kellie and Dom, you probably already know, so let someone else guess! Smile )

I've got a guess -- I'll keep it to myself-- if it is what I'm thinking the fuckers are impossible to potty train too..

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