Pitbulls
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14-02-2013, 10:47 AM
RE: Pitbulls
(14-02-2013 10:32 AM)k37713 Wrote:  
(14-02-2013 10:05 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Breeding for temperment is not the same as breeding for aggression. ANY healthy dog can be trained to be aggressive, and likewise ANY dog can be trained to be well tempered. the breeding of a dog increases or decreases the drive to adhere to the type of training. This is a very important difference that any skilled trainer recognizes and works with.

This sin't to say some breeds don't have more potential than others to be aggressive. But that aggression is caused by training, not breeding. The breeding makes pit bulls and their kin very powerful and determined dogs. This makes training them to be aggressive easy, since they will push through the worst of situations to accomplish what it's been taught to do. People who want aggressive dogs take advantage of this. As a result, many people get these dogs, and have an underlying fear that they are "naturally aggressive" and inadvertently teach the dog to be just that, simply by being intimidated by the dog. Being intimidated teaches the dog that it must be the pack leader so as to maintain a safe and stable pack.

Breeding for aggression has actually been a miserable failure for the most part. I bring up staffies again, because I know them well, but this applies to many breeds....Staffies were, at one point, used as fighting dogs. They ended up being miserable failures, because often, an owner couldn't even beat their dog into being aggressive. In fact, many fight trainers have ended up beating staffies to death in an attempt to bring out their aggression. And never once do they so much as nip. And this, from a dog "bred to be aggressive."

Not tryin to fight with ya Kell, but after 20 years experience, a large portion of that training pit bulls specifically, I really have a strong drive to educate people about the difference between aggressive dogs and aggressive breeds.


I agree with you.. I guess what I was trying to say was .. "more of a potential towards agression".. Owners need to know about the tendancies of whatever breed they choose.. GS's end up in rescue a lot because of this issue -- people don't see past the pretty dog and end up with more than they can handle. The defensive/agressive manner in GS's help with the work they are intended for - so the breeders that want the breed to stay true to its working nature look for this when selecting dogs to pair. They actually get pissy about the back yard breeders who try and breed the sharpness out of them to make better "pets".
Aha. I get ya now. "potential for agression" is definitely a more accurate statement. Thanks for the clarity. Potential for aggression in strong willed and sharp dogs through training is definitely a factor in breeds.

I guess what I'm getting at is that humans have yet to successfully breed out the instinct dogs have to avoid conflict that could result in injury. This still has to be taught, because all dogs still have the instinct to warn, warn, warn, defend. If a dog warns you in any way (growling, barking, snarling, etc) it is doing so in an attempt to AVOID attacking. This attempt at intimidation is due to a natural inclination to avoid injury for survival sake. This can only be surmounted by training a dog that aggretion is the only way to survive.

NOTE: when referring to aggretion, I mean fighting/attacking, not aggressively going about their duties. This is what Kellie is talking about when she refers to "sharpness", a common term used by breeders and trainers to describe a dog that is very driven to accomplish what it's been trained to do.

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14-02-2013, 10:48 AM
RE: Pitbulls
(14-02-2013 10:44 AM)k37713 Wrote:  
(14-02-2013 10:36 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Interesting little side note: does anyone know what dog breed is considered to have the highest potential for agression by most professional trainers? (Kellie and Dom, you probably already know, so let someone else guess! Smile )

I've got a guess -- I'll keep it to myself-- if it is what I'm thinking the fuckers are impossible to potty train too..
Lol, I think you got it.

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14-02-2013, 10:49 AM
RE: Pitbulls
I bet is the chihuahua, those little awful, nasty, ugly hell-spawns of hell

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14-02-2013, 11:02 AM
RE: Pitbulls
I don't think I have ever met a purebred Chihuahua that wasn't nippy.
That's not to say ALL of them are like that, just the ones I have encountered.
Our Chihuahua/Rat Terrier rescue is dominant but not aggressive. (Dominant over the other dogs we have)

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14-02-2013, 12:47 PM
RE: Pitbulls
I spent many years training in Schutzhund. My Dobie at the time (avatar picture) was an Alpha if there ever was one and most other dogs could tell and gave him a wide berth BUT NOT Chihuahuas or Jack Russels. Both breeds large of heart and small in the self preservation department.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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14-02-2013, 12:55 PM
RE: Pitbulls
(14-02-2013 10:22 AM)nach_in Wrote:  
(14-02-2013 10:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'd like you to consider not buying a dog but instead rescuing one from a shelter or rescue society.

There are a lot of worthy dogs who need homes.
Yes! of course, I might do that, I just want to get a dog some day, not now, I don't have the time or the energy to take proper care of a dog now. But when I do I'll try to adopt first Smile


You would do well to match your own "temperament" with your future family member. If you like to lounge around get a low-energy breed (Basset Hound, St. Bernard for examples). If on the other hand you go on runs or hikes then perhaps a Malanois, Dobi or, heaven forbid, a Jack Russell.

Also take into consideration how much space your pup will have to run around. High energy dogs love a yard. I have seen too many wrong pairings and it is unfair to the dog.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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14-02-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: Pitbulls
(14-02-2013 12:47 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I spent many years training in Schutzhund. My Dobie at the time (avatar picture) was an Alpha if there ever was one and most other dogs could tell and gave him a wide berth BUT NOT Chihuahuas or Jack Russels. Both breeds large of heart and small in the self preservation department.

I love Dobies Smile I will probably try Schutzlund with my next Giant - I did agility with my first -- I had her tested to do Schutzlund and she failed miserably.. she was kinda a wussie but she was fearless on the agility course -- she made that teeter totter her bitch.. ha

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14-02-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: Pitbulls
Woohoo, Stark is back!

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14-02-2013, 01:09 PM
RE: Pitbulls
(14-02-2013 12:55 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(14-02-2013 10:22 AM)nach_in Wrote:  Yes! of course, I might do that, I just want to get a dog some day, not now, I don't have the time or the energy to take proper care of a dog now. But when I do I'll try to adopt first Smile


You would do well to match your own "temperament" with your future family member. If you like to lounge around get a low-energy breed (Basset Hound, St. Bernard for examples). If on the other hand you go on runs or hikes then perhaps a Malanois, Dobi or, heaven forbid, a Jack Russell.

Also take into consideration how much space your pup will have to run around. High energy dogs love a yard. I have seen too many wrong pairings and it is unfair to the dog.
My favourite breed is the Lahsa Apso, the shi tsu is great too, lazy, cute and furry.
The thing is that it's hard to adopt them, but I'll try to find some little lazy bitch somewhere Tongue

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14-02-2013, 01:18 PM
RE: Pitbulls
I was just reading that dogs are 2.8 times more likely to attack then chained up then when they are lose.
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