Placebo ethics.
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02-01-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: Placebo ethics.
(02-01-2013 07:45 PM)BioPsychMS Wrote:  
(02-01-2013 07:21 PM)aurora Wrote:  That's just wrong. I think it's a little different here in Oz but they still say 'we don't want you to be an addict!'

Well, let me think; would I rather have an addiction or would I rather be in excruciating pain all the time....uuuum Dodgy
I also think part of the problem is that pain is a subjective experience that others not experiencing it are skeptical of. For example, if I say I am sad, most people, including physicians are likely to believe me and offer support and comfort and practically throw medication at me. If I say I am anxious, same result. If I say I am happy...you get the idea.

However, if I say I am in pain then the response seems to be. "whoa, hang on a minute, you don't seem to be hurting as much as you claim" or the ever popular "I don't see any physical reason you should be in pain" and the conclusion is you are not. Either that, or you are faking or just being a big baby and need to suck it up. Don't get me wrong, people do fake injury to obtain drugs or to get attention but the numbers are low yet the critics persist. Just saying. Angry
Yes, I do understand that this happens quite a lot and everyone's pain threshold is different and, as such, it's difficult to ascertain the level of suffering one is going through.
One would hope the medical industry is still working hard on these problems as a favourable outcome would be greatly welcomed by the general public (especially those afflicted with chronic pain).

Humankind Dodgy (a total misnomer)
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02-01-2013, 07:54 PM
RE: Placebo ethics.
(02-01-2013 07:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-01-2013 07:35 PM)Anjele Wrote:  As I came out of anesthesia from bilateral mastectomy and the placement of tissue expanders, the first thing I thought was "why does it feel like someone took a sledge hammer to both of my shoulder blades?"

After getting moved out of recovery a nurse finally came in with ONE HYDROCODONE tablet for pain. Nothing was being put into my IV they were just running the rest of the saline out. After an hour and I was gritting my teeth and trying to remember Lamaze breathing techniques from years ago, I realized that the pain pill hadn't done a thing and I could not mentally control the pain. I hurt so bad my teeth were chattering. I called the nurse and she said I had to wait three more hours before I could have another pain pill. I told her how bad I felt and she said my surgeon DIDN'T BELIEVE IN PAIN MEDS! I tried for another two hours to get a grip and mental control. I called her back in and said that I had read their mission statement and part of it was PAIN CONTROL and it wasn't happening and that either she figured something out or I would. She again said the doctor would not prescribe anything else. I told her she had 30 minutes and if I didn't have some relief I would call my plastic surgeon. She asked me not to do that because it would look like she wasn't doing her job. DUH! A few minutes later my husband walked out of the room and the nurse was on the phone, about 10 minutes later she came in with a shot of morphine, more pain pills, and the offer of a sleeping pill later if I wanted one. She had called the plastic surgeon herself.

I get not wanting to get someone addicted...but damn! It's not like I had gone in for some simple little procedure, they had restrung my whole chest. It was a horrifying display of the lack of common sense in treatment. And I think it was a bit sadistic.

I sure hope that pain management and common sense are the rule and that others don't go through what I did. My family doctor eventually kept me from jumping off a bridge as I told her if I could just get some sleep I could deal with the pain better...her response was that what I had been through was an appropriate use of pain meds. I will always be thankful that she would listen to me and help me.


Yes, your surgeon was one of the pain Nazis. I have had to deal with these self-righteous, misguided, ignorant twits.

Fortunately, my orthopedic surgeon was not one of these.
Pain Nazi...I like that. Fucktard works too and more recently...puss infected cum bubble. Hobo Maybe I am biased because of the my area of research but it is just astounding how misunderstood pain is by the very people that should know better.
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02-01-2013, 07:58 PM
RE: Placebo ethics.
(02-01-2013 07:54 PM)BioPsychMS Wrote:  
(02-01-2013 07:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, your surgeon was one of the pain Nazis. I have had to deal with these self-righteous, misguided, ignorant twits.

Fortunately, my orthopedic surgeon was not one of these.
Pain Nazi...I like that. Fucktard works too and more recently...puss infected cum bubble. Hobo Maybe I am biased because of the my area of research but it is just astounding how misunderstood pain is by the very people that should know better.


It is simple. Pain causes stress, stress interferes with healing, treat the pain.

But, no. The pain Nazis believe that narcotics are from Satan, that suffering is noble, or something else beyond reason.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-01-2013, 07:59 PM
RE: Placebo ethics.
(02-01-2013 07:53 PM)aurora Wrote:  
(02-01-2013 07:45 PM)BioPsychMS Wrote:  I also think part of the problem is that pain is a subjective experience that others not experiencing it are skeptical of. For example, if I say I am sad, most people, including physicians are likely to believe me and offer support and comfort and practically throw medication at me. If I say I am anxious, same result. If I say I am happy...you get the idea.

However, if I say I am in pain then the response seems to be. "whoa, hang on a minute, you don't seem to be hurting as much as you claim" or the ever popular "I don't see any physical reason you should be in pain" and the conclusion is you are not. Either that, or you are faking or just being a big baby and need to suck it up. Don't get me wrong, people do fake injury to obtain drugs or to get attention but the numbers are low yet the critics persist. Just saying. Angry
Yes, I do understand that this happens quite a lot and everyone's pain threshold is different and, as such, it's difficult to ascertain the level of suffering one is going through.
One would hope the medical industry is still working hard on these problems as a favourable outcome would be greatly welcomed by the general public (especially those afflicted with chronic pain).
Fortunately, for as much bitching as I do about lack of progress, there are numerous dedicated, compassionate and hardworking physicians, nurses and researchers that are diligently trying to provide the best care they can and to fill the huge gaps of functional knowledge. Unfortunately, we have a long way to go.
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02-01-2013, 08:06 PM
RE: Placebo ethics.
(02-01-2013 07:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-01-2013 07:54 PM)BioPsychMS Wrote:  Pain Nazi...I like that. Fucktard works too and more recently...puss infected cum bubble. Hobo Maybe I am biased because of the my area of research but it is just astounding how misunderstood pain is by the very people that should know better.


It is simple. Pain causes stress, stress interferes with healing, treat the pain.

But, no. The pain Nazis believe that narcotics are from Satan, that suffering is noble, or something else beyond reason.
Its even more insidious then that. Pain causes stress and the stress caused by the pain CREATES more pain. It is a vicious cycle. But under no circumstance will I give you more pain meds, nope, nope, nope....[Image: banghead.gif]
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02-01-2013, 08:43 PM
RE: Placebo ethics.
(02-01-2013 07:35 PM)Anjele Wrote:  As I came out of anesthesia from bilateral mastectomy and the placement of tissue expanders, the first thing I thought was "why does it feel like someone took a sledge hammer to both of my shoulder blades?"

After getting moved out of recovery a nurse finally came in with ONE HYDROCODONE tablet for pain. Nothing was being put into my IV they were just running the rest of the saline out. After an hour and I was gritting my teeth and trying to remember Lamaze breathing techniques from years ago, I realized that the pain pill hadn't done a thing and I could not mentally control the pain. I hurt so bad my teeth were chattering. I called the nurse and she said I had to wait three more hours before I could have another pain pill. I told her how bad I felt and she said my surgeon DIDN'T BELIEVE IN PAIN MEDS! I tried for another two hours to get a grip and mental control. I called her back in and said that I had read their mission statement and part of it was PAIN CONTROL and it wasn't happening and that either she figured something out or I would. She again said the doctor would not prescribe anything else. I told her she had 30 minutes and if I didn't have some relief I would call my plastic surgeon. She asked me not to do that because it would look like she wasn't doing her job. DUH! A few minutes later my husband walked out of the room and the nurse was on the phone, about 10 minutes later she came in with a shot of morphine, more pain pills, and the offer of a sleeping pill later if I wanted one. She had called the plastic surgeon herself.

I get not wanting to get someone addicted...but damn! It's not like I had gone in for some simple little procedure, they had restrung my whole chest. It was a horrifying display of the lack of common sense in treatment. And I think it was a bit sadistic.

I sure hope that pain management and common sense are the rule and that others don't go through what I did. My family doctor eventually kept me from jumping off a bridge as I told her if I could just get some sleep I could deal with the pain better...her response was that what I had been through was an appropriate use of pain meds. I will always be thankful that she would listen to me and help me.

That's just heartbreaking and wrong. My husband's worked in the medical field forever and has heard worse....but it's becoming sooo common today it's scary.
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