Please Demonstrate
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19-11-2014, 09:16 AM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 09:12 AM)Rik Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 09:04 AM)Free Wrote:  Can you demonstrate that to be true?

Which part? Evolution?

No, that "Quantum mechanics and black holes are not within the realm of common sense."

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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19-11-2014, 09:20 AM
RE: Please Demonstrate
Common sense tells me that the sun rotates around the earth. Just look how it arcs across the sky throughout the day.

Rolleyes
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19-11-2014, 09:23 AM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 09:20 AM)photon9 Wrote:  Common sense tells me that the sun rotates around the earth. Just look how it arcs across the sky throughout the day.

Rolleyes

Instead of making some attempt to ridicule, could you at least endeavor to make some kind of attempt at addressing and disputing the reasoning?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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19-11-2014, 10:45 AM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 09:16 AM)Free Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 09:12 AM)Rik Wrote:  Which part? Evolution?

No, that "Quantum mechanics and black holes are not within the realm of common sense."

If they were, most people would understand the concepts and accept them as true, and it wouldn't have taken until the 20th century to conceive of them.
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19-11-2014, 10:56 AM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 10:45 AM)Rik Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 09:16 AM)Free Wrote:  No, that "Quantum mechanics and black holes are not within the realm of common sense."

If they were, most people would understand the concepts and accept them as true, and it wouldn't have taken until the 20th century to conceive of them.

This still did not address the issue. I understand the difficulty in demonstrating your claim to be true, however.

Blink

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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19-11-2014, 10:57 AM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 09:10 AM)Free Wrote:  This is merely repeating what has already been stated and is not addressing my point.
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This is really a question of reasoning.

I was attempting to point out that your questions, as asked, are not meaningful and your repeated assertion that common experience on earth can be extrapolated to the areas you are asking about is just wrong. Any reasoning that begins with faulty premises is a waste of time.

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19-11-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 10:56 AM)Free Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 10:45 AM)Rik Wrote:  If they were, most people would understand the concepts and accept them as true, and it wouldn't have taken until the 20th century to conceive of them.

This still did not address the issue. I understand the difficulty in demonstrating your claim to be true, however.

Blink

Do you have some odd understanding of common sense?
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19-11-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 09:23 AM)Free Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 09:20 AM)photon9 Wrote:  Common sense tells me that the sun rotates around the earth. Just look how it arcs across the sky throughout the day.

Rolleyes

Instead of making some attempt to ridicule, could you at least endeavor to make some kind of attempt at addressing and disputing the reasoning?

I'll go for it but you just choose to ignore or dismiss it when brought up repeatedly in the creation thread. It doesn't give much credence to think you want to accept or understand this concept.

The easy example to your idea is how on a Quantum level, particles can be in two places at once. There's other realities that don't coexist in the way we think about things functioning based on our natural understandings.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2013/01/23...s-find-out

"Heisenberg and Bohr claimed that it's not the quantum world fault, it's ours; electrons are neither particles nor waves; these are images we construct from our everyday experience, and such intuitions are inappropriate to describe what really goes on down there. The math, though, is crystal clear. We can compute at will, finding out the various properties of electrons, atoms and molecules with remarkable accuracy."

And less not we rub these off as idea. The data is coming out as seemingly valid when tested for: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/0...V620121009

In other words, the mere act of observation determines which form they take and even what reality is.

That, of course, does not describe the macro-world of bigger objects that people experience on a day-to-day basis. A key to Wineland and Haroche's achievements was getting "quantum weirdness" to show its face in the macro-world."

As they point out, it's not the same in the day-to-day world we humans experience in manners of function.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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19-11-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 09:04 AM)Free Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 09:02 AM)Rik Wrote:  That is a very weak argument. Your common sense and intuition evolved in the mid-sized world. We know that those don't work in the extremes of small and large. Quantum mechanics and black holes are not within the realm of common sense.

Can you demonstrate that to be true?

Very easy.
1. Uncertainty. Is it "reasonable" or make "common sense" that in the Doble Slit experiment, the electron goes through BOTH slits ?
2. Relativity. Is it "reasonable" or make "common sense" that there is no absolute reference point for space-time ?
The universe at it's fundamental level has been proven to be non-intuitive to human brains. ----- >>>> "Logic is necessary, but not sufficient", is the principle that has been demonstrated over and over.

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19-11-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 10:57 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 09:10 AM)Free Wrote:  This is merely repeating what has already been stated and is not addressing my point.
...
This is really a question of reasoning.

I was attempting to point out that your questions, as asked, are not meaningful and your repeated assertion that common experience on earth can be extrapolated to the areas you are asking about is just wrong. Any reasoning that begins with faulty premises is a waste of time.

They are not meaningful because you say so?

Also, can you demonstrated why it is wrong to assume that the experience we have on earth in regards to all observable things as being the transformation of some previous existence cannot be applied to the Big Bang? Since all the knowledge we have points to this conclusion, why then can this very same knowledge not be used in assuming the Big bang also had a previous existence?

Imagine for a moment that we have 1,000,000,000 things that have been demonstrated to be transformations of a previous existence. How can this not be evidence enough to allow reasoning where we could reasonably assume that the 1 thing- the Big Bang- also had a previous existence?

1,000,000,000 verses 1.

It seems to me that the odds are greatly in favor of us being safe in making a reasonable assumption that, like all things, the Big Bang had a previous existence.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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