Please Demonstrate
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19-11-2014, 05:31 PM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 04:24 PM)Free Wrote:  If it was such an unreasonable assumption on my part, why then are some of the brightest minds on the planet arriving at the same frame of mind as I have?

It is NOT an unreasonable assumption.

Maybe the issue is your definition of assumption. To me it implies truth and that is not reasonable. Hypothesizing and looking for ways to verify speculations is fine. Assuming you have an answer is not.

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19-11-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 05:31 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 04:24 PM)Free Wrote:  If it was such an unreasonable assumption on my part, why then are some of the brightest minds on the planet arriving at the same frame of mind as I have?

It is NOT an unreasonable assumption.

Maybe the issue is your definition of assumption. To me it implies truth and that is not reasonable. Hypothesizing and looking for ways to verify speculations is fine. Assuming you have an answer is not.

It simply means "to take for granted without proof."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assume

Huh

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19-11-2014, 06:25 PM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 06:12 PM)Free Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 05:31 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Maybe the issue is your definition of assumption. To me it implies truth and that is not reasonable. Hypothesizing and looking for ways to verify speculations is fine. Assuming you have an answer is not.

It simply means "to take for granted without proof."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assume

Huh

Well, I was honestly hoping that we were using substantially different meanings. Are you actually saying that you don't see a problem with taking something for granted without proof?

Do you do that in other areas of your life or just for cosmological questions?

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19-11-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 06:25 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 06:12 PM)Free Wrote:  It simply means "to take for granted without proof."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assume

Huh

Well, I was honestly hoping that we were using substantially different meanings. Are you actually saying that you don't see a problem with taking something for granted without proof?

Do you do that in other areas of your life or just for cosmological questions?

Everybody takes things for granted without proof. It's human nature.

Are you normal?

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19-11-2014, 07:06 PM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 06:52 PM)Free Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 06:25 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Well, I was honestly hoping that we were using substantially different meanings. Are you actually saying that you don't see a problem with taking something for granted without proof?

Do you do that in other areas of your life or just for cosmological questions?

Everybody takes things for granted without proof. It's human nature.

Are you normal?

That is why I noted "substantially different" meanings. I make assumptions when I have evidence. You have no evidence that applies to what you are assuming which makes your assuming anything absurd.

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19-11-2014, 07:17 PM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2014 07:20 PM by Free.)
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 07:06 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 06:52 PM)Free Wrote:  Everybody takes things for granted without proof. It's human nature.

Are you normal?

That is why I noted "substantially different" meanings. I make assumptions when I have evidence. You have no evidence that applies to what you are assuming which makes your assuming anything absurd.

Is that your assumption?

Try passing that assumption off on the physicists who work with Loop Quantum Cosmology and the Big Bounce, which is exactly what I was defending on both this thread and the other thread.

They don't seem to have a problem with assuming the same thing I assumed, so why should you?

How is assuming what I believe any different than all of those here who assume the Big Bang happened as they understand it happened?

They all accept the Big Bang without evidence, so what's the problem with what I accept, champ?

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19-11-2014, 07:26 PM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2014 07:34 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 06:52 PM)Free Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 06:25 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Well, I was honestly hoping that we were using substantially different meanings. Are you actually saying that you don't see a problem with taking something for granted without proof?

Do you do that in other areas of your life or just for cosmological questions?

Everybody takes things for granted without proof. It's human nature.

Are you normal?

I strive to take as few things for granted as possible... combating human nature is a good part of human nature. It's part of attempting to be as skeptical as possible. I wouldn't care if I was normal or not, that's a very bizarre thing to ask or care about to me.

I watched that video HoC posted, I like it as it's fun to watch those videos where you get guys talking about their field. It's the best part of that science channel show through the wormhole. When you got the mathematical formulas and begin questioning, that's an excellent thing; and I've questioned if inflation is very well understood. I actually just listened to a podcast from MindOne(I think its called) of an astrophysicist talking about the immediate moments after the big bang and how they came to the ideas of inflation.

As stated well before, I don't think anyone has had an issue with the open questions and perusing alternatives... it's that asserting things must be some way is not something many are fond of nor few as a proper rational means of questioning.

Do you honestly think there is not a STRONG difference of approach from your perspective and those two in that video? You have stated it has to be based on natural observation... I didn't see at one point them saying it has too be, but they've drawn a potential conclusion based on mathematical examinations of theories upon observational findings of the universe... that's what I see as two totally different approaches going on.

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19-11-2014, 07:31 PM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 07:17 PM)Free Wrote:  They don't seem to have a problem with assuming the same thing I assumed, so why should you?

They aren't assuming anything, they are hypothesizing. I'm sorry that you can't understand the difference.

By the way, "assuming for the sake of argument" is not the same as assuming.

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19-11-2014, 07:50 PM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 07:17 PM)Free Wrote:  They all accept the Big Bang without evidence, so what's the problem with what I accept, champ?

You can't possibly be serious.

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19-11-2014, 07:59 PM
RE: Please Demonstrate
(19-11-2014 07:26 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 06:52 PM)Free Wrote:  Everybody takes things for granted without proof. It's human nature.

Are you normal?

I strive to take as few things for granted as possible... combating human nature is a good part of human nature. It's part of attempting to be as skeptical as possible. I wouldn't care if I was normal or not, that's a very bizarre thing to ask or care about to me.

I watched that video HoC posted, I like it as it's fun to watch those videos where you get guys talking about their field. It's the best part of that science channel show through the wormhole. When you got the mathematical formulas and begin questioning, that's an excellent thing; and I've questioned if inflation is very well understood. I actually just listened to a podcast from MindOne(I think its called) of an astrophysicist talking about the immediate moments after the big bang and how they came to the ideas of inflation.

As stated well before, I don't think anyone has had an issue with the open questions and perusing alternatives... it's that asserting things must be some way is not something many are fond of nor few as a proper rational means of questioning.

Do you honestly think there is not a STRONG difference of approach from your perspective and those two in that video? You have stated it has to be based on natural observation... I didn't see at one point them saying it has too be, but they've drawn a conclusion based on mathematical examinations of theories upon observational findings of the universe... that's what I see as two totally different approaches going on.

Like I keep saying, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that the singularity we call the Big Bang- previous to expansion- did not occupy a place of existence.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that the existence of the Big Bang did not come from a previous existence, because if it didn't, then the singulaity would have to be claimed to be an eternal unchanging existence previous to expansion.

It makes absolutely no sense to me at all that since so many people accept an expansion of the singularity that they do not realize that the singularity went into a state of flux and changed, which demonstrates that it does change and is therefore not eternal.

It makes perfect sense to me that the singularity was something that was formed, such as what is proposed by Loop Quantum Cosmology, from a previous existence.

It makes perfect sense to me that the universe as you understand it was not created by expansion, but rather all observable matter, energy, and space-time expanded into a pre-existing eternal universe, and that perhaps 500 billion light years away, some other singularity is doing the exact same thing right now.

This has all happened before, and it will all happen again.

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