Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
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10-11-2015, 03:49 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2015 04:28 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
(10-11-2015 03:03 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Thank you for the moral/morale correction. Typo on my part. I have asked the questions about religious figures in the military. The consensus that I have heard is that chaplains are so important to the morale of the unit that the military have found that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Due to the unique demands of the military, chaplains are essential to the morale of the unit. However they are supposed to check their evangelistic desires at the door. They should not be preaching the gospels to atheists in order to convert them. They are to be simply a resource that is provided by the military to assist those who DESIRE it.

Yes, there are highly trained professionals who specialize in grief counseling, marriage counseling, depression, or anger management. The problem with these sources are that they cannot provide many of the spiritual services that an ecclesiastically ordained person can. If a catholic Marine wants to go to confession before he goes out on a dangerous patrol who will provide that to him? Only a catholic priest has the credentials to do that.

Another problem is that the military currently do not have positions for these counselors to provide counseling services in combat environments. Unfortunately, if an atheist solider is in some FOB in the mountains of Afghanistan and is messed up because his squad was obliterated in an ambush, a chaplain may be the best trained person available to help him get through the survivor's guilt.

Doesn't seem to be working does it ? What good is it to "keep up morale" (temporarily) while the young and edit : "dumb politically naieve/idealistic" do the dirty work of politicians, who get to say 40 years later, "Oh it was all a mistake" (McNamara), while a HUGE number of them, when get home, their lives ruined with PTSD, blow their brains out ?
Your Jebus have a solution for THAT ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-11-2015, 04:02 PM
RE: Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
(10-11-2015 03:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 03:03 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Thank you for the moral/morale correction. Typo on my part. I have asked the questions about religious figures in the military. The consensus that I have heard is that chaplains are so important to the morale of the unit that the military have found that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Due to the unique demands of the military, chaplains are essential to the morale of the unit. However they are supposed to check their evangelistic desires at the door. They should not be preaching the gospels to atheists in order to convert them. They are to be simply a resource that is provided by the military to assist those who DESIRE it.

Yes, there are highly trained professionals who specialize in grief counseling, marriage counseling, depression, or anger management. The problem with these sources are that they cannot provide many of the spiritual services that an ecclesiastically ordained person can. If a catholic Marine wants to go to confession before he goes out on a dangerous patrol who will provide that to him? Only a catholic priest has the credentials to do that.

Another problem is that the military currently do not have positions for these counselors to provide counseling services in combat environments. Unfortunately, if an atheist solider is in some FOB in the mountains of Afghanistan and is messed up because his squad was obliterated in an ambush, a chaplain may be the best trained person available to help him get through the survivor's guilt.

Doesn't seem to be working does it ? What good is it to "keep up morale" (temporarily) while the young and dumb do the dirty work of politicians who get to say 40 years later, "Oh it was all a mistake" (McNamara), while a HUGE number of them, when get home, their lives ruined with PTSD, blow their brains out ?
Your Jebus have a solution for THAT ?
I believe the point you were trying to make is how effective is a military chaplain to an atheist soldier during a tragedy? I would have to say that they can be very effective. Some chaplains (although not all) have secular training and experience in counseling and psychology and are completely able to separate their religious platitudes to assist someone. I do not think anyone here appreciates the "young and dumb" comments about the military service members. I have Marines in my command who have college degrees from very prestigious universities.
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10-11-2015, 04:07 PM
RE: Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
One thing I find difficult when dealing with religious people is their assumption that my lack of belief automatic deserves less standing or respect than their belief. Most theists of ANY stripe will advocate respect for the beliefs of other theists, Christians will generally respect your right to be a Jew, or Hindu, or even Muslim. But tell them you don't believe in any of it and it's obviously just a phase or you haven't suffered enough in your life to find a higher power yet; AND if you don't believe anyway what's the harm in everyone around you praying and feeling spiffy about themselves? You just have to suck it up.
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10-11-2015, 04:14 PM
RE: Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
(10-11-2015 04:07 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  One thing I find difficult when dealing with religious people is their assumption that my lack of belief automatic deserves less standing or respect than their belief. Most theists of ANY stripe will advocate respect for the beliefs of other theists, Christians will generally respect your right to be a Jew, or Hindu, or even Muslim. But tell them you don't believe in any of it and it's obviously just a phase or you haven't suffered enough in your life to find a higher power yet; AND if you don't believe anyway what's the harm in everyone around you praying and feeling spiffy about themselves? You just have to suck it up.
Agreed. Another thing that many bring up is that many theists assume atheist have inferior moral standards. The bible says its ok to eat meat and has been known to support corporal and even capital punishment. However I know atheists who are vegetarian, refuse spanking their children, and completely against the death penalty.
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10-11-2015, 04:15 PM
RE: Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
I think you're over complicating things, Jason. I read the many posts in both threads. Seems you are looking for some formulaic system to deal with atheists under your charge. Some alternate "good book" you can write for yourself.
Here's my take on it.
1)Be compassionate and supportive of any who come to you in need. Above all listen and HEAR.
2)If they want religious platitudes, they will absolutely ask for them. That is how they were raised, how they believe.
3)If they don't ask, refer to #1
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10-11-2015, 04:15 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2015 04:29 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
(10-11-2015 04:02 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 03:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Doesn't seem to be working does it ? What good is it to "keep up morale" (temporarily) while the young and dumb do the dirty work of politicians who get to say 40 years later, "Oh it was all a mistake" (McNamara), while a HUGE number of them, when get home, their lives ruined with PTSD, blow their brains out ?
Your Jebus have a solution for THAT ?
I believe the point you were trying to make is how effective is a military chaplain to an atheist soldier during a tragedy? I would have to say that they can be very effective. Some chaplains (although not all) have secular training and experience in counseling and psychology and are completely able to separate their religious platitudes to assist someone. I do not think anyone here appreciates the "young and dumb" comments about the military service members. I have Marines in my command who have college degrees from very prestigious universities.

My point is that your religious BS is useless to BOTH the religious and nonreligious.
It may be a temporary "boost" but the numbers (of suicides) prove it fails in the long run.

I probably should have said "young and naieve".

The military adventures of the US in recent years have caused the deaths of tens of thousands ... all for nothing. You are chosing to be a part of that system, .. in fact to support it. How it that "ethical", or even "Christian" ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-11-2015, 04:28 PM
RE: Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
(10-11-2015 04:14 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Agreed. Another thing that many bring up is that many theists assume atheist have inferior moral standards. The bible says its ok to eat meat and has been known to support corporal and even capital punishment. However I know atheists who are vegetarian, refuse spanking their children, and completely against the death penalty.


Great. As long as you understand morality does not rely upon your chosen religion and treat them as equals, you should be fine.

Here we often have to deal with those to whom Mr Boston refers. I find it ingratiating because I see very little morality in most religions. Especially judaism, xianity and islam.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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10-11-2015, 04:48 PM
RE: Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
Jason, I feel again moved to compliment you, both on your motives, and the ecumenical nature of how you enact your beliefs, and your patience with us. It's not just that you have refrained from the aggressive attack attack mentality displayed by about nine in ten Christians who arrive on these forums, and largely come here in the spirit of listening, learning, coexistence, and mutual support.

But more than that, you have refrained from descending into an insulting tone and a combative mood in a forum where such is explicitly prohibited, despite bad examples and provocation from forum regulars who should damn well know better. Angry

My compliments. Credit where credit is due.
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10-11-2015, 04:51 PM
RE: Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
https://www.secular.org/issues/chaplains/position

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/17/air_forc...llegiance/

http://www.pjvoice.com/v32/32300words.aspx

http://mic.com/articles/62145/how-atheis...rimination

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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10-11-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: Please Help a Future Military Chaplain
(10-11-2015 12:51 PM)KUSA Wrote:  I've been out of the military for a while now so I don't know if they are still doing this but. When we were in formation and there was public prayer, everyone was forced to bow their heads.

Never heard of such a thing in the USN in the early 80's. The only time there was any invocation whatsoever from the chaplain was when the Captain was addressing us or over the PA on Sunday morning. The invocation was always secular and in formation you sure as hell didn't bow your head or even move a muscle. There was nothing restful about Parade Rest.

#sigh
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