Please help get rid of my fears
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-11-2016, 11:31 AM
Please help get rid of my fears
Hello, everyone. I've been an atheist for about a half a year now (and a very rough half year, I've got to say). Essentially my fears of hell spiked up and I immediately began looking up anything that could debunk Christianity and -- welp, thankfully there was way more to find there than I expected. Thumbsup

So I do feel mostly confident in my decision to leave Christianity behind and my fears of hell are almost entirely dissolved. Browsing this forum helped so much, I can't thank all of you enough. It almost makes me feel bad for coming to you about something as silly as this, but you're all more educated than me in about essentially everything when it comes to these matters so--

There's one thing that's still picking at my brain, one thing that just keeps making my panic return. Of course one of the things I was looking to debunk was the Shroud of Turin (I know, I know, it's PROBABLY fake, but my brain keeps nagging at me that it just might be legit). I read all of the threads here debunking it, and yet the fears just kept coming back.

The reason why is that in one of the responses I noticed that it was recently dated to 33-1270 (something along those lines I can't be bothered to go back and check right now I'm a lazy girl woops :lolSmile and even though at the latest it's dated to, well, obviously around the first time it was shown, I'm still wondering why at the earliest it was still set back to 33. It's been scaring me a lot and I'm really sorry to bother you all with something so silly but you've helped me so much so far and I was hoping you could help with this.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-11-2016, 12:25 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
Hi Welcome Smile

Even if a study/analysis of the cloth dates the shroud to the exact time of Jesus' death--that still doesn't mean A) It's from Jesus; B) Jesus is a demigod.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like jennybee's post
02-11-2016, 12:26 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
Diddlyboop. For starters welcome to the Forum. I'm glad you could find comfort in some of the ideas that you've found here.

But as far a the Shroud of Turin goes.

1. What if it is true?
He we have a piece of cloth with a dirty figure on it. How in any way is that any way a wondrous thing? My undershirts get pit stans. Don't see anyone calling me god. Just because there may have been a figure that could be associated or used as the bases for what is now know as Jesus. Doesn't prove he had any divine powers.

I've been wanting to add this next guy to my Cult's thread.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...lts?page=3

His name is Vissarion.

[Image: article-0-0635FA4F000005DC-260_468x325.jpg]

He's a cult leader in Russia. I highly sujest checking out Vice's report on him on you tube. He has a big following with people that believe he is the second coming of Christ. When he talks it's a lot of woo. Words he put's together that sound flashy, but when acculy thought about are nonsense.

This is a "religious" leader in modern times that believes he is the son of god. And I would imagine it is a fair bet most people would think he's a nut job. So if this guy left soiled bed sheets would that make him a son of god? Why would soiled sheets that are 2000 year old be any more impressive?

2. What dose the science tell us?

Mark Goodacre, a Professor of New Testament and Christian origins in the Department of Religious studies at Duke University. when asked is "Is there a better way to check the shroud than carbon dating? I've been told carbon dating is very inaccurate."

His response was

Quote:Actually, carbon dating is an excellent way to ascertain the date of an artifact. Many are disappointed, not surprisingly, that the shroud dated to between AD 1260 and 1390. I recall my own disappointment (but not surprise) on hearing the results back in 1988. But the scientists doing the carbon dating were not amateurs, and the samples were tested in three separate labs. Moreover, the carbon date cohered with other evidence that the shroud was a medieval forgery, like the fact that there is no evidence of its existence until the 14th century.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/03/living/fin...oud-turin/

How dose carbon dating work?
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environ...bon-14.htm

... to be continued.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Commonsensei's post
02-11-2016, 12:33 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
The image on the shroud is not that of a Near Eastern young male.
It's an OLD Italian fella. That's all ya need. Look at it. It fits in perfectly with what we know about what was going on in the Middle Ages with these sorts of images. No amount of wishful thinking will change the facts.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Bucky Ball's post
02-11-2016, 12:39 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
Ahhh, thank you guys so much. This is already helping. Bowing

Sorry, I've been really on edge since I first deconverted. Hell, I literally worried myself sick. I lost a lot of weight in the process and am still recovering. (Anyone who says indoctrination -particularly with teachings of hell- is not abusive is telling a very big lie).

The Shroud itself I know just has to be fake, but again, religious fears aren't rational ones no matter how hard you try to shake 'em. I remember seeing a video where this guy was saying 'supportive facts' about the shroud to Matt Dillahunty and oh my goodness did I have trouble sleeping that night. It still bugs me. Why were things that only came with blood on the shroud (even if tests for blood have failed), things like that, fffs deconverting is hard.

But all of this is wonderful. I'm so glad you guys are so amazing and supportive. Heart
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Diddlyboop's post
02-11-2016, 12:48 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016 12:58 PM by jennybee.)
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
People like to believe all sorts of things based on "faith." Just like some people choose to believe that dragons existed and that dinosaurs lived with people because of some cave paintings and pottery that was found (and of course 'cause the Bible says so Wink ). Well, the pottery was later found to be a hoax and studies revealed that the cave paintings were drawings that morphed into other cave drawings over time, giving the appearance of a dinosaur. The point is--reasonable explanations always weigh out over myth.

The Shroud isn't any different--no matter how many studies are done on it. And really, if it does turn out to actually be the Shroud of Jesus himself--all that proves is that he existed and that his followers (which are many) kept the cloth safe because they viewed it as holy, therefore, it survived over time (kind of like a family heirloom). If you still have a necklace from your great, great, great, great grandmother that was passed down from generations--does that mean she was a true goddess of the realm with magical powers? Tongue
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jennybee's post
02-11-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
(02-11-2016 12:39 PM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  Ahhh, thank you guys so much. This is already helping. Bowing

Sorry, I've been really on edge since I first deconverted. Hell, I literally worried myself sick. I lost a lot of weight in the process and am still recovering. (Anyone who says indoctrination -particularly with teachings of hell- is not abusive is telling a very big lie).

The Shroud itself I know just has to be fake, but again, religious fears aren't rational ones no matter how hard you try to shake 'em. I remember seeing a video where this guy was saying 'supportive facts' about the shroud to Matt Dillahunty and oh my goodness did I have trouble sleeping that night. It still bugs me. Why were things that only came with blood on the shroud (even if tests for blood have failed), things like that, fffs deconverting is hard.

But all of this is wonderful. I'm so glad you guys are so amazing and supportive. Heart

It's hard when you are just getting out from underneath religion. I've been there myself. It is a process, but you'll get there. *hugs*

When faced with woo--ask yourself which scenario makes more *logical* sense. Remind yourself there are gazillion gods that have been created over time by a gazillion different cultures. You only know about your god because that's the one you were taught. You fear hell because that's what you were taught. Religion is a learned behavior--it's not innate. Your religion conditioned you to fear these things. If no one ever brought these things to your attention, you would know nothing about them and these fears would be nonexistent in your life.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jennybee's post
02-11-2016, 01:01 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
Please don't think your concerns are too 'small' or 'silly'.

Loads of people here will help.

I hope the next 6 months are easier.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like bemore's post
02-11-2016, 01:01 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
(02-11-2016 12:54 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 12:39 PM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  Ahhh, thank you guys so much. This is already helping. Bowing

Sorry, I've been really on edge since I first deconverted. Hell, I literally worried myself sick. I lost a lot of weight in the process and am still recovering. (Anyone who says indoctrination -particularly with teachings of hell- is not abusive is telling a very big lie).

The Shroud itself I know just has to be fake, but again, religious fears aren't rational ones no matter how hard you try to shake 'em. I remember seeing a video where this guy was saying 'supportive facts' about the shroud to Matt Dillahunty and oh my goodness did I have trouble sleeping that night. It still bugs me. Why were things that only came with blood on the shroud (even if tests for blood have failed), things like that, fffs deconverting is hard.

But all of this is wonderful. I'm so glad you guys are so amazing and supportive. Heart

It's hard when you are just getting out from underneath religion. I've been there myself. It is a process, but you'll get there. *hugs*

When faced with woo--ask yourself which scenario makes more *logical* sense. Remind yourself there are gazillion gods that have been created over time by a gazillion different cultures. You only know about your god because that's the one you were taught. You fear hell because that's what you were taught. Religion is a learned behavior--it's not innate. Your religion conditioned you to fear these things. If no one ever brought these things to your attention, you would know nothing about them and these fears would be nonexistent in your life.

Ahhh. Thank you so much, thank you thank you thank you. I swear, I've just been so nervous since I officially deconverted. I know the fears are supposed to fade over time and they definitely have as I've learned more and more, but there's always one thing or another that comes back to bite me and then the stupid scary woo comes back, like the magic Italian table cloth. Evil_monster
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Diddlyboop's post
02-11-2016, 01:04 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
(02-11-2016 01:01 PM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 12:54 PM)jennybee Wrote:  It's hard when you are just getting out from underneath religion. I've been there myself. It is a process, but you'll get there. *hugs*

When faced with woo--ask yourself which scenario makes more *logical* sense. Remind yourself there are gazillion gods that have been created over time by a gazillion different cultures. You only know about your god because that's the one you were taught. You fear hell because that's what you were taught. Religion is a learned behavior--it's not innate. Your religion conditioned you to fear these things. If no one ever brought these things to your attention, you would know nothing about them and these fears would be nonexistent in your life.

Ahhh. Thank you so much, thank you thank you thank you. I swear, I've just been so nervous since I officially deconverted. I know the fears are supposed to fade over time and they definitely have as I've learned more and more, but there's always one thing or another that comes back to bite me and then the stupid scary woo comes back, like the magic Italian table cloth. Evil_monster

It's very normal. It happened to a lot of us during deconversion. The best advice I got was to keep sweeping that stuff out of your brain and replacing it with scholarly books, videos, documentaries, classes etc. View what happened to you as brainwashing--because that's what it was. It's going to take some time to unravel all of that--but it will happen.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jennybee's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: