Please help get rid of my fears
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02-11-2016, 01:20 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
Gosh, did I mention that you guys were amazing? (I think I've already thanked you a lot, but I can't help it, you've all been my saving grace since this started.)

I don't get why my brain keeps doing it, to be honest. Literally everything else that's ever been purported to be a miracle turned out to be, WOOPS, not of any sort of divine origin, but here my head is all like

"THE SHROUD IS REAL AND THEREFORE JESUS FLOATING INTO THE SKY COMPLETELY UNASSISTED IS REAL AND YOU'RE GOING TO HELL"-- blehhh. Stop that.

I get so mad at myself because I know I'm working myself up over what is probably (and due to other "divine things" not being real) most definitely nonsense, but I can't stop it. The smallest "the shroud is real!!" thing just sends me straight into terror no matter what. Facepalm
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02-11-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
(02-11-2016 01:20 PM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  Gosh, did I mention that you guys were amazing? (I think I've already thanked you a lot, but I can't help it, you've all been my saving grace since this started.)

I don't get why my brain keeps doing it, to be honest. Literally everything else that's ever been purported to be a miracle turned out to be, WOOPS, not of any sort of divine origin, but here my head is all like

"THE SHROUD IS REAL AND THEREFORE JESUS FLOATING INTO THE SKY COMPLETELY UNASSISTED IS REAL AND YOU'RE GOING TO HELL"-- blehhh. Stop that.

I get so mad at myself because I know I'm working myself up over what is probably (and due to other "divine things" not being real) most definitely nonsense, but I can't stop it. The smallest "the shroud is real!!" thing just sends me straight into terror no matter what. Facepalm

It's a trigger for you. I had a few religious triggers as well when I left the church. The "what ifs" are scary when you've been conditioned to believe something is real.

What you might also find helpful is that Jesus wasn't the only one running around performing magical feats/claiming to be the messiah during this time period. This helped me immensely because we are taught that Jesus is "special." Well, guess what, he wasn't. Here's a good article to read by Richard Carrier:

http://infidels.org/library/modern/richa...kooks.html
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02-11-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
Logic is beautiful. Reason is beautiful.

Richard Carrier's awesome.

But just to try and get rid of any residual fear, gosh I'm so sorry to keep coming back to this -- I remember hearing that the majority of scientists who weren't Christian studying the shroud became Christians afterwards.

I get that it's most likely a BS claim but again it's another of those things that keeps pulling at me no matter what I do. Weeping

Eugh, residual worries are annoying...
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02-11-2016, 02:24 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
(02-11-2016 02:11 PM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  Logic is beautiful. Reason is beautiful.

Richard Carrier's awesome.

But just to try and get rid of any residual fear, gosh I'm so sorry to keep coming back to this -- I remember hearing that the majority of scientists who weren't Christian studying the shroud became Christians afterwards.

I get that it's most likely a BS claim but again it's another of those things that keeps pulling at me no matter what I do. Weeping

Eugh, residual worries are annoying...
Welcome.

The more you keep looking, the more you will see the ridiculous lengths people will go to to defend their beliefs.
Lying is just a tool of the church as far as I can tell.
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02-11-2016, 02:36 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
(02-11-2016 02:11 PM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  Logic is beautiful. Reason is beautiful.

Richard Carrier's awesome.

But just to try and get rid of any residual fear, gosh I'm so sorry to keep coming back to this -- I remember hearing that the majority of scientists who weren't Christian studying the shroud became Christians afterwards.

I get that it's most likely a BS claim but again it's another of those things that keeps pulling at me no matter what I do. Weeping

Eugh, residual worries are annoying...

Where'd you hear that? Was it an Apologist website? Tongue
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02-11-2016, 02:41 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
(02-11-2016 02:24 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 02:11 PM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  Logic is beautiful. Reason is beautiful.

Richard Carrier's awesome.

But just to try and get rid of any residual fear, gosh I'm so sorry to keep coming back to this -- I remember hearing that the majority of scientists who weren't Christian studying the shroud became Christians afterwards.

I get that it's most likely a BS claim but again it's another of those things that keeps pulling at me no matter what I do. Weeping

Eugh, residual worries are annoying...
Welcome.

The more you keep looking, the more you will see the ridiculous lengths people will go to to defend their beliefs.
Lying is just a tool of the church as far as I can tell.

Ahh, I had the feeling it wasn't true. But once more that weird part of my thoughts that for whatever reason really wants to convince me I'm going to hell kept repeating it to me and I got worried.
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02-11-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
(02-11-2016 02:36 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 02:11 PM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  Logic is beautiful. Reason is beautiful.

Richard Carrier's awesome.

But just to try and get rid of any residual fear, gosh I'm so sorry to keep coming back to this -- I remember hearing that the majority of scientists who weren't Christian studying the shroud became Christians afterwards.

I get that it's most likely a BS claim but again it's another of those things that keeps pulling at me no matter what I do. Weeping

Eugh, residual worries are annoying...

Where'd you hear that? Was it an Apologist website? Tongue

It was some comment on one of the many websites I visited talking about the shroud. Thumbsup I'm sure it wasn't backed by any studies or anything but it still scared me and I wanted to affirm the claim wasn't true, is all.
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02-11-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
Critical thinking is your friend, question everything. Thumbsup
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02-11-2016, 03:27 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016 03:41 PM by jennybee.)
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
(02-11-2016 02:43 PM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 02:36 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Where'd you hear that? Was it an Apologist website? Tongue

It was some comment on one of the many websites I visited talking about the shroud. Thumbsup I'm sure it wasn't backed by any studies or anything but it still scared me and I wanted to affirm the claim wasn't true, is all.

I googled just to see and it appears one scientist (Barrie Schwortz) who was part of a 1978 research team (Shroud of Turin Research Project) has said he believes the shroud is authentic. Authentic meaning it is not a painting or forgery, but the blood from a man during that time period. And guess what--he is still Jewish. The shroud did not convert him to Christianity.

He is saying the shroud is authentic to a male who was beaten/buried during the time period of Jesus and the cloth was expensive. So therefore, Jesus.

There are a few problems with this assumption:

1) No DNA evidence to prove it was Jesus.

2) Many people were crucified in the same way Jesus was. Crucifixion was not just something that happened to Jesus. This was a very common practice during this time frame. As was wrapping bodies in shrouds. If the shroud is real and if it actually came from this time frame--the shroud could belong to any male who was beaten/crucified/buried at this time. All the shroud is is the real/fake bloody image of a male. To say that is Jesus is a huge leap.

From his Catholiconline interview: "Schwortz emphasized that the science points to the Shroud being the burial cloth belonging to a man, buried according to the Jewish tradition after having been crucified in a way consistent with the Gospel. However, he said it is not proof of the resurrection - and this is where faith comes in."
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02-11-2016, 03:47 PM
RE: Please help get rid of my fears
(02-11-2016 03:27 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 02:43 PM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  It was some comment on one of the many websites I visited talking about the shroud. Thumbsup I'm sure it wasn't backed by any studies or anything but it still scared me and I wanted to affirm the claim wasn't true, is all.

I googled just to see and it appears one scientist (Barrie Schwortz) who was part of a 1978 research team (Shroud of Turin Research Project) has said he believes the shroud is authentic. Authentic meaning it is not a painting or forgery, but the blood from a man during that time period. And guess what--he is still Jewish. The shroud did not convert him to Christianity.

He is saying the shroud is authentic to a male who was beaten/buried during the time period of Jesus and the cloth was expensive. So therefore, Jesus.

There are a few problems with this assumption:

1) No DNA evidence to prove it was Jesus.

2) Many people were crucified in the same way Jesus was. Crucifixion was not just something that happened to Jesus. This was a very common practice during this time frame. As was wrapping bodies in shrouds. If the shroud is real and if it actually came from this time frame--the shroud could belong to any male who was beaten/crucified/buried at this time. All the shroud is is the real/fake bloody image of a male. To say that is Jesus is a huge leap.

From his Catholiconline interview: "Schwortz emphasized that the science points to the Shroud being the burial cloth belonging to a man, buried according to the Jewish tradition after having been crucified in a way consistent with the Gospel. However, he said it is not proof of the resurrection - and this is where faith comes in."

Oh gosh -- but there's far more evidence pointing to it being fake, right? I know, resurrection is literally impossible no matter how you look at it, but gosh I tend to worry about these things too much. I know it would be a huge leap to say "Therefore Jebus" but... aaaaahhh. Sometimes I wish I'd never been introduced to Christianity in the first place. Getting rid of it is so much trouble.
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