Please pray for me
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
27-02-2012, 02:10 PM
RE: Please pray for me
(27-02-2012 01:41 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(27-02-2012 01:37 PM)kineo Wrote:  Traditional "Ask and you shall receive" prayer can't get you anywhere.

Ask and you shall receive a swift kick up the butt Big Grin

Well maybe I don't want a swift kick up the but... Sad
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kineo's post
27-02-2012, 02:13 PM
RE: Please pray for me
(27-02-2012 01:37 PM)kineo Wrote:  In my mind, that's the point. Presuming for a moment that the Christian God is real... if you can't pray to change God's will- and God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and onmi-present- then everything that happens must be His will otherwise it wouldn't have happened. So any amount of intercessory prayer is ultimately useless and must be insulting to God. Traditional "Ask and you shall receive" prayer can't get you anywhere.

Is this what you believe KC? If not, can you explain (or point me to your already written explanation) why intercessory prayer is worthwhile?

I have tried to point this very obvious thing to many Christians and the look of incomprehension in their face is disheartening. My argument usually goes like this:

Let's say god is all good, all knowing, and all powerful.
Let's also say that god has a plan, and that given the nature of god, that plan is the wisest, and resulting in the most good of all possible plans.
Let's say I get cancer. God knows I got cancer because he's all knowing, therefore I shouldn't need to tell him in prayer, but let's say I pray god to heal me from my cancer. It can go 2 ways:
a) My dying from cancer is part of god's wise and good plan. If god healed me, the resulting plan would be less good and wise than the one in which I die, and that would go against god's nature of perfect good. Therefore god isn't going to heal me no matter how much I pray.
b) My healing from cancer is part of god's wise and good plan. God is going to heal me whether I pray for it or not, since god will see his perfect plan to conclusion.
Result: it makes absolutely no difference whether I pray or not.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like sy2502's post
27-02-2012, 02:15 PM
RE: Please pray for me
(27-02-2012 01:37 PM)kineo Wrote:  In my mind, that's the point. Presuming for a moment that the Christian God is real... if you can't pray to change God's will- and God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and onmi-present- then everything that happens must be His will otherwise it wouldn't have happened. So any amount of intercessory prayer is ultimately useless and must be insulting to God. Traditional "Ask and you shall receive" prayer can't get you anywhere.

Is this what you believe KC? If not, can you explain (or point me to your already written explanation) why intercessory prayer is worthwhile?

Intercessory prayer to change God is fruitless. Intercessory prayer is for the pray-er so that they can more fully understand God's plan.

Praying for someone helps you understand God's plan, and it allows the pray-er to understand the "whys" of God's actions. Likewise, God can also use the pray-er as a conduit for His plan and message to the afflicted.

Granted, even intercessory prayer is predestined, so it boils down as to a way God enacts His plan.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 02:17 PM
RE: Please pray for me
I just had a long time friend who is a pastor send me a text to tell me he's praying that I'm doing all right. I responded, I don't want the prayers, but thanks for being concerned about me and I'm well.

Then he went on about how he had just moved to Nebraska and God had given him a mild winter and nice people in his church. So I told him I'm glad that Nature and people were being good to him. Guess I'm going to have to drop the Atheist bomb on him at some point, but I'm pretty sure he'll just pray for me more and I hate to see a friend waste their time and energy like that. Dodgy

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Erxomai's post
27-02-2012, 02:55 PM
RE: Please pray for me
Shank unto others, before they shank unto you! Or you can sit beside him and join him for a swig from his bottle... Hey, it's only Hep-C... It's no worse than getting a shank in your liver.

"I feel like the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders...
Thanks for getting off my back!"
-
Arcticspear Idea
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like arcticspear's post
27-02-2012, 03:18 PM
RE: Please pray for me
Ive prayed for you......so im sorry if your walking back from the doctors with some grave news and you get shanked by that bum.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2012, 03:34 PM
RE: Please pray for me
(27-02-2012 02:17 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Then he went on about how he had just moved to Nebraska and God had given him a mild winter and nice people in his church.

Why is it that people thank god only for the nice things? If even the crappy things are part of god's plan and will eventually bring good, shouldn't people thank god for those too? Like the example above: why do people thank god for a mild winter but not for Hurricane Katrina, or earthquakes? Players thank god only when they win, why not when they lose? I remember a couple of years ago, there were some people trapped in a mine, and nobody knew if they were alive or dead. Then through some snafu, it came out that they were alive, and everybody going on camera to thank god for the miracle, and how they had prayed god to save them, and look at that, he did. Then it turned out that they were wrong and the miners were all dead. I didn't ear people bring up god after that...

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes sy2502's post
27-02-2012, 04:01 PM
RE: Please pray for me
(27-02-2012 03:34 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  
(27-02-2012 02:17 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Then he went on about how he had just moved to Nebraska and God had given him a mild winter and nice people in his church.

Why is it that people thank god only for the nice things? If even the crappy things are part of god's plan and will eventually bring good, shouldn't people thank god for those too? Like the example above: why do people thank god for a mild winter but not for Hurricane Katrina, or earthquakes? Players thank god only when they win, why not when they lose? I remember a couple of years ago, there were some people trapped in a mine, and nobody knew if they were alive or dead. Then through some snafu, it came out that they were alive, and everybody going on camera to thank god for the miracle, and how they had prayed god to save them, and look at that, he did. Then it turned out that they were wrong and the miners were all dead. I didn't ear people bring up god after that...

Yeah, I rarely ever heard anyone give thanks for something negative. It happens, but not often. It's good positive things that make us feel grateful and not the things that crush our spirit. But even the Bible agrees with you:

1 Thessalonians 5:18
"give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: