Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
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26-05-2011, 02:21 PM
RE: Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
@GassyKitten
The picture in your link is an artist , I think Japanese who did the eat human fetus thing as an art project. A friends of mine who is a graphic designer showed it to me a while back. If you want I'll get the whole story. The pics are photoshoped as far as I know.

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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26-05-2011, 04:24 PM
RE: Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
Ladies and Gentlemen ,
The poster known on this site as ElShadai is, as I’m sure many of you are suspecting , a known troll .
If you check out his website at http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/ you will see this for yourselves.
Typically he copies and pastes his fallacious arguments from a variety of other religious sites , usually without any acknowledgement .
While there you will notice a section headed Forums about Atheism ,if you check on here you will find many of the forums he has “trolled” ,although I note he seems to have stopped recording them from Nov 2010.
This is just to advise you .
All his questions have been asked before and thoroughly answered on many forums but he keeps on coming back pedalling the same old plagiarised claptrap.
Anyway as I say this is just an advisory.

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
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26-05-2011, 05:05 PM
RE: Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
(25-05-2011 09:53 PM)ElShadai Wrote:  I do not believe in macroevolution. micro evolution however is a unquestionable , proven fact.

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26-05-2011, 05:28 PM
 
RE: Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
(26-05-2011 06:02 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  What arguments? Specify each and every one. How were they superficial? provide proof of every claim you make and give a scientific background that can be checked.

how about coming back to the topic ?
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26-05-2011, 05:31 PM
 
RE: Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
(26-05-2011 05:28 PM)ElShadai Wrote:  
(26-05-2011 06:02 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  What arguments? Specify each and every one. How were they superficial? provide proof of every claim you make and give a scientific background that can be checked.

how about coming back to the topic ?

How about replying to the questions that were directed towards you?

Escape tactics do not really work in forums. Conversations are archived and the only thing one has to do to identify you as fallible is to read them through.
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26-05-2011, 05:32 PM
RE: Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
Put simply, even if we had no knowledge of the science that we do now, evolution, big bang cosmology, etc., saying "I don't know how we/earth/universe came to exist" is a "better" stance than believing a God exists that is responsible for our existence, especially when supported by fallacy upon fallacy and lacking all evidence.

Hence, atheism.
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26-05-2011, 05:58 PM
 
RE: Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
(26-05-2011 02:21 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  @GassyKitten
The picture in your link is an artist , I think Japanese who did the eat human fetus thing as an art project. A friends of mine who is a graphic designer showed it to me a while back. If you want I'll get the whole story. The pics are photoshoped as far as I know.
To my knowledge Zhu Yu who is said to be Chinese, per the Wiki link that I first posted , is the same man as in the second linked image, with the graphic warning.
I knew that had to be photoshopped, though it was gross enough to afford a fair warning in advance.


As to the matter of what Watchman has brought to light about our ElTroll, which Jesus Zombie blessed me to spot in my former post, what is to be done? Feed the Troll's obvious lack of life and fixation with proving they're more pathetic than Theist? Register at the website linked by Watchman and bring to their attention that their Theist is actually a Troll plagiarizing posts just to occupy what his actions cause me to presume must be the attention of a shut-in. Ban him by IP, or simply freeze him out?

Curious. Because in truth I think they very well could be an atheist. And they front as a Theist, while Trolling atheist sites because they're weird like that. And because no self-respecting Theist would insult what they hold as truth in their heart, when they also hold as truth their god is watching.

(And taking serious shorthand as to what damnation awaits him, how many medications he's avoiding and second guessing if, when higher power had that brain fart in the pretend garden, if he didn't curse Satan by making his serpent self into twins.Tongue One of which evolved to be keyboard proficient. [Image: 17.gif] )
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26-05-2011, 06:14 PM
 
RE: Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
(26-05-2011 09:23 AM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  First of all, if you are honestly reading my posts, I thank you. I realize I'm getting a little bit long here, and you are a very popular guy here. You first says, in regards to the Big Bang, that nothing can only produce nothing. But the Big Bang doesn't say there was nothing. It just says that our universe use to exist in a radically different state, condensed into a singularity. It still existed, and it can't be rightfully described as nothing. I know it's common for it be described as nothing, but that's because such concepts as the universe fitting into a singularity, or that space and time didn't exist tend to scare the general public away.

there is a general consense amongst scientific community, that the universe had a absolute beginning.

Paul Davies :

http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11...-bang.html

there is very good evidence that the universe did come into existence in a big bang, about fifteen billion years ago. The effects of that primeval explosion are clearly detectable today-in the fact that the universe is still expanding, and is filled with an afterglow of radiant heat.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/beginning.html

"The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago." Stephen Hawking The Beginning of Time

"Scientists generally agree that "the Big Bang" birthed the universe about 15 billion years ago." Tom Parisi, Northern Illinois University

"As a result of the Big Bang (the tremendous explosion which marked the beginning of our Universe), the universe is expanding and most of the galaxies within it are moving away from each other." CalTech

"The Big Bang model of the universe's birth is the most widely accepted model that has ever been conceived for the scientific origin of everything." Stuart Robbins, Case Western Reserve University

"Many once believed that the universe had no beginning or end and was truly infinite. Through the inception of the Big Bang theory, however, no longer could the universe be considered infinite. The universe was forced to take on the properties of a finite phenomenon, possessing a history and a beginning." Chris LaRocco and Blair Rothstein, University of Michigan

"The scientific evidence is now overwhelming that the Universe began with a "Big Bang" ~15 billion (15,000,000,000 or 15E9) years ago." "The Big Bang theory is the most widely accepted theory of the creation of the Universe." Dr. van der Pluijm, University of Michigan

"The present location and velocities of galaxies are a result of a primordial blast known as the BIG BANG. It marked: THE BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE! THE BEGINNING OF TIME!" Terry Herter, Cornell University

"That radiation is residual heat from the Big Bang, the event that sparked the beginning of the universe some 13 billion years ago." Craig Hogan, University of Washington

"Most scientists agree that the universe began some 12 to 20 billion years ago in what has come to be known as the Big Bang (a term coined by the English astrophysicist Fred Hoyle in 1950." University of Illinois

"The universe cannot be infinitely large or infinitely old (it evolves in time)." Nilakshi Veerabathina, Georgia State University ()

"The universe had a beginning. There was once nothing and now there is something." Janna Levin, Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics at Cambridge University

"Today scientists generally believe the universe was created in a violent explosion called the Big Bang." Susan Terebey, Department of Physics and Astronomy, California State University Los Angeles



Quote:But more to the point; before the Big Bang, there was no time or space, and it's speculated that because of this the law of cause and effect couldn't exist. So you're premise one is iffy at best.

Do you understand what you are writing ? I don't...... I don't understand the concept, and why this speculation should be compelling.

Quote:Let's say the universe did have a cause; a Quantum event, which appears to be one of those uncaused events I mentioned earlier.

a quantum event cannot happen out of absolutely nothing physical.

John Barrow and Frank Tipler comment, ". . . the modern picture of the quantum vacuum differs radically from the classical and everyday meaning of a vacuum-- nothing. . . . The quantum vacuum (or vacuua, as there can exist many) states . . . are defined simply as local, or global, energy minima (V'(O)= O, V"(O)>O)" ([1986], p. 440). The microstructure of the quantum vacuum is a sea of continually forming and dissolving particles which borrow energy from the vacuum for their brief existence. A quantum vacuum is thus far from nothing, and vacuum fluctuations do not constitute an exception to the principle that whatever begins to exist has a cause.
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26-05-2011, 06:30 PM
 
RE: Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
(26-05-2011 06:14 PM)ElShadai Wrote:  there is a general consense amongst scientific community, that the universe had a absolute beginning.

Paul Davies :

http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11...-bang.html

there is very good evidence that the universe did come into existence in a big bang, about fifteen billion years ago. The effects of that primeval explosion are clearly detectable today-in the fact that the universe is still expanding, and is filled with an afterglow of radiant heat.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/beginning.html

"The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago." Stephen Hawking The Beginning of Time

"Scientists generally agree that "the Big Bang" birthed the universe about 15 billion years ago." Tom Parisi, Northern Illinois University

"As a result of the Big Bang (the tremendous explosion which marked the beginning of our Universe), the universe is expanding and most of the galaxies within it are moving away from each other." CalTech

"The Big Bang model of the universe's birth is the most widely accepted model that has ever been conceived for the scientific origin of everything." Stuart Robbins, Case Western Reserve University

"Many once believed that the universe had no beginning or end and was truly infinite. Through the inception of the Big Bang theory, however, no longer could the universe be considered infinite. The universe was forced to take on the properties of a finite phenomenon, possessing a history and a beginning." Chris LaRocco and Blair Rothstein, University of Michigan

"The scientific evidence is now overwhelming that the Universe began with a "Big Bang" ~15 billion (15,000,000,000 or 15E9) years ago." "The Big Bang theory is the most widely accepted theory of the creation of the Universe." Dr. van der Pluijm, University of Michigan

"The present location and velocities of galaxies are a result of a primordial blast known as the BIG BANG. It marked: THE BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE! THE BEGINNING OF TIME!" Terry Herter, Cornell University

"That radiation is residual heat from the Big Bang, the event that sparked the beginning of the universe some 13 billion years ago." Craig Hogan, University of Washington

"Most scientists agree that the universe began some 12 to 20 billion years ago in what has come to be known as the Big Bang (a term coined by the English astrophysicist Fred Hoyle in 1950." University of Illinois

"The universe cannot be infinitely large or infinitely old (it evolves in time)." Nilakshi Veerabathina, Georgia State University ()

"The universe had a beginning. There was once nothing and now there is something." Janna Levin, Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics at Cambridge University

"Today scientists generally believe the universe was created in a violent explosion called the Big Bang." Susan Terebey, Department of Physics and Astronomy, California State University Los Angeles

Thanks for agreeing with us.



Quote:Do you understand what you are writing ? I don't...... I don't understand the concept, and why this speculation should be compelling.











Quote:a quantum event cannot happen out of absolutely nothing physical.

John Barrow and Frank Tipler comment, ". . . the modern picture of the quantum vacuum differs radically from the classical and everyday meaning of a vacuum-- nothing. . . . The quantum vacuum (or vacuua, as there can exist many) states . . . are defined simply as local, or global, energy minima (V'(O)= O, V"(O)>O)" ([1986], p. 440). The microstructure of the quantum vacuum is a sea of continually forming and dissolving particles which borrow energy from the vacuum for their brief existence. A quantum vacuum is thus far from nothing, and vacuum fluctuations do not constitute an exception to the principle that whatever begins to exist has a cause.



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26-05-2011, 06:31 PM
RE: Please present a better explanation for our existence than Theism
(26-05-2011 06:14 PM)ElShadai Wrote:  a quantum event cannot happen out of absolutely nothing physical.

It could if that quantum event had metaphysical properties, existing outside of the laws of physics, and was a self-created, infinite event.

Do you see how stupid that explanation looks when used as proof?

And yet that's your "best explanation for our existence."


P.S. Have you noticed that every single link you provide is either a free domain name or has the word "god" in the title?

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