Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
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18-03-2013, 12:11 PM
RE: Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
(17-03-2013 02:29 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(16-03-2013 07:23 PM)darthbreezy Wrote:  Your screen name is Godexists. I've said it before: burden of proof is on you. If you want me to believe in your bullshit, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You come along thinking you're so clever, that you have the ONE TRUE ARGUMENT that will put us heathens in our place and PROVE once and for all that your god is real. Get off your high horse. Been there, done that. If you could actually prove god's existence, you wouldn't be placing a detailed list you found on Wikipedia in an atheist forum and telling us to prove to YOU that god doesn't exist--no, you'd be on fucking Fox News hoping to get rich. This is like the damn probability fallacy, just as useless but we have to pull the information for you like you're supremely incapable. Start a thread with one topic, not all of them. You wouldn't want me to come to a religious forum and do the same.
I have not asked to prove that God does not exist. How about you read my first post more carefully ? you are welcome to come to my forum and make your point.

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/

i just ask you to be POLITE and respectful, in the same manner as i am here with everybody.

You mean you didn't ask it explicity. Also, like I said, I wouldn't go to your Christian forum, or any Christian forum, and say "hey, now prove the entire bible is true, by examining each book from Genesis to Revelation. Aaaand GO!" Regardless if you provide the link to your actual forum. I'd be POLITE and respectful if there was an actual question instead of "tell me how it's ALL possible!" This is all just one silly "you Google it," "no, YOU Google it!" setup, and the reverse would be as described, where I ask you to prove the entire bible is true. Also like I said in my other post, pick one thing and this simply wouldn't be an issue. I just have a problem with laying it all out on the table without hearing what your actual question is (yes, I read your post title, I mean go through that list of yours on the first page and spell out exactly what it is you take issue with). If I were to send a question your way, following your formula here, I could just say, "Hey GE, please present explanations which make the bible plausible, starting with Genesis and ending with Revelation." You'd tell me to have an actual question, too.

Keep your rosaries out of my ovaries, and your theology out of my biology.
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." --Dr. House
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18-03-2013, 01:56 PM
RE: Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
(17-03-2013 09:41 PM)Julius Wrote:  Q.E.D - you are wrong dude and you don't know what you are talking about.
No kidding !!

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...stant.html

Those who favor naturalism had long sought to find the simplest explanation for the universe, hoping to avoid any evidence for design. A Big Bang model in which there was just enough matter to equal the critical density to account for a flat universe would have provided that. However, for many years, it has been evident that there is less than half of the amount of matter in the universe to account for a flat universe. A cosmological constant would provide an energy density to make up for the missing matter density, but would require an extreme amount of fine tuning. The supernovae studies demonstrated that there was an energy density to the universe (but did not define the size of this energy density), and the recent Boomerang study demonstrated that this energy density is exactly what one would expect to get a flat universe. How finely tuned must this energy density be to get a flat universe? One part in 10120,6 which is:1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000
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18-03-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
Well, there you have it. Proof. It says so on the internet in a "God & Science" site, so it must be true.

I mean, how can you argue with "1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000" ?

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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18-03-2013, 02:19 PM
RE: Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
He still has yet to address which god, and the temporal problem. Until then, he's just a child, doing his "god of the gaps" thing, as he's too uncreative to think of / cook up anything better.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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18-03-2013, 02:23 PM
RE: Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
I gotta say, having skimmed through a bunch of pages on that site, it's a well-made, sharp looking site with tons and tons of info on it. Lots of wrong info, like the introduction to "Answers for Atheists and Agnostics", which makes all kinds of wrong assumptions about what being a skeptic is supposed to mean and also presents a bunch of biased, one-sided objections to cosmology.

This site is an awesome tool for shutting down Christians who might be starting to question their mythology, for redirecting them back into blindly accepting ancient myths instead of reality by misrepresenting reality and placing a vast array of smoke and mirrors to keep anyone from finding their way out of the Christian delusion.

I find this site to be disingenuous and reprehensible, doubly so for the great lengths it has gone and the massive amount of effort being put into this site, all for the sake of deceiving the doubters and manipulating them into remaining passively under their religion's control.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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18-03-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
(18-03-2013 01:56 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(17-03-2013 09:41 PM)Julius Wrote:  Q.E.D - you are wrong dude and you don't know what you are talking about.
No kidding !!

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...stant.html

Those who favor naturalism had long sought to find the simplest explanation for the universe, hoping to avoid any evidence for design. A Big Bang model in which there was just enough matter to equal the critical density to account for a flat universe would have provided that. However, for many years, it has been evident that there is less than half of the amount of matter in the universe to account for a flat universe. A cosmological constant would provide an energy density to make up for the missing matter density, but would require an extreme amount of fine tuning. The supernovae studies demonstrated that there was an energy density to the universe (but did not define the size of this energy density), and the recent Boomerang study demonstrated that this energy density is exactly what one would expect to get a flat universe. How finely tuned must this energy density be to get a flat universe? One part in 10120,6 which is:1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000



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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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18-03-2013, 05:12 PM
RE: Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
(18-03-2013 07:16 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Ah, Julius.

I just took a shit. It had more to say than you ever have.

Damnit! That was dumb of me. The sign clearly says "don't feed the trolls" Drinking Beverage

ON EDIT: Hey, Julius, you slanderous mold infestation. How about this. The forum admins can check to see if my IP and God's IP are the same. If they are, you warthog-faced buffoon, they can ban me. If they are not, they ban you. Sound fair, you miserable vomitous mass?
What makes you go out of your way to defend a disingenuous Christian Troll...even after the Christian Troll gets caught spreading falsehoods?

Julius
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18-03-2013, 10:52 PM
RE: Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
Julius.

You mistake my intention. It's not that I'm defending anyone due to any property of their own. I'm just telling an asshole to go fuck himself, asshole. Anyone being bullied is deserving of my aid. Anyone. Except you. I doubt I'd piss on you to put out a fire.

Hey, Aseptic.

If you watch the Brian Greene TED talk already posted in this thread you'll find a similarly large number.

Hey, Chas.

Quote:There are two points.



There is no reason to suppose the rate of expansion could be different.



If the universe could have different parameters, then a different universe would exist.



We wouldn't be here. So?

I agree. There is no reason to suppose that the rate of expansion could be different (unless you consider multiverse theory which has yet to be proven) but the fact remains, if it was off just a little bit, there would be no universe.

I agree. If the parameters were different then a different universe would exist (or no universe).

I think the answer to your "so" is that the point being made is that life is possible in this universe, but that if things were slightly different, it wouldn't be. That's a very simple, very straightforward, entirely supported idea.

Now, you know me, I'm not making the jump to suggest that this means that God made it that way. But you know me, so you know that Atheist/Theist warfare never factors into my reasoning process. What's true is true. That's it, that's all.

Hey, EKills.

Quote:Without absolute knowledge, you do not know whether life could exist in
other universes with other constants. Our life, on our planet, might be
incredibly precarious. But if he is going to CLAIM that no life would
exist if any of the constants changed, then he would need to show
evidence that all other sets of possible combinations of variables for
the constants would be unable to support ANY life (not just our own).

You're right. The multiverse theory hasn't been proven. It's just a hypothesis. So we don't know if there are other universes, let alone if they could support life. But the quantum physicists that are proposing the multiverse theory are doing so because when they examined two things, what do strings look like and how much dark energy is there in the universe, they realised that strings look different in every universe and that the specific shape corresponds to a specific universe and that from universe to universe, the parameters are necessarily different. That is to say, no two universes are identical.

If he has claimed that life cannot exist in ANY other universe, then I'm with you, that's incorrect. I don't remember him doing that, but if he did, bad God! Multiverse theory does tell us that in other universes, where things like gravity are slightly off for example, there would only be primordial soup, the fundamental forces would never separate and matter could not form. No matter, no life. So the idea is that life can only exist in universes whose parameters fall within a very narrow band.

Quote:Quite clearly, neither he nor anyone else is capable of doing this. Thus
he should withdraw his claim, because he is unable to support it. Quote
mining Hawkins is not proof of his claim.

Watch Brian Greene on TED or watch the multiverse episode of Fabric of the Cosmos. Greene outlines the theory in detail. It's not proven yet, but if you trust where quantum physics is taking us, then you cannot ignore it.

Quote:That being said, I guess I did give you too much credit. It won't happen again.

That's your shit. Has nothing to do with me. You're just being sour.

I'm an Agnostic. That means that half of what I say is going to piss off Theists and the other half is going to piss of Atheists. But 100% of what I say is considered and in-depth. If you can engage with it knowing that not everything I say is going to jive with what you believe, then we'll have a wonderful time. If you can't, well, that's weak sauce.

Quote:And for the record, I'll talk to you however I goddamn well please.

Go fuck your dad in the ass and have your mom suck the shit off your dick. Offended? Too bad, that's a you problem.

OR

We could speak to each other with respect and not resort to personal attacks as a method of wining the argument.

I wish you no ill will. I'm just talking here. If you're capable of discussing the issue, I'm happy to converse with you. If you feel the need to lash out at me because you don't like the content of the message, well, it'll get ugly. I have no interest in that. It takes too much energy. I like you. So do me a favour and play nice.

Quote:This isn't a witch hunt. This troll doesn't need you as a noble
guardian, fighting off the unwashed masses. He quite clearly came here
to pick a fight, and I'm bored enough to give it to him. If you want to
throw your lot it with him, it's your ass.

So I'm either with you or I'm against you?

Weak.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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20-03-2013, 03:59 AM
RE: Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
(18-03-2013 02:23 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I gotta say, having skimmed through a bunch of pages on that site, it's a well-made, sharp looking site with tons and tons of info on it. Lots of wrong info, like the introduction to "Answers for Atheists and Agnostics", which makes all kinds of wrong assumptions about what being a skeptic is supposed to mean and also presents a bunch of biased, one-sided objections to cosmology.

This site is an awesome tool for shutting down Christians who might be starting to question their mythology, for redirecting them back into blindly accepting ancient myths instead of reality by misrepresenting reality and placing a vast array of smoke and mirrors to keep anyone from finding their way out of the Christian delusion.

I find this site to be disingenuous and reprehensible, doubly so for the great lengths it has gone and the massive amount of effort being put into this site, all for the sake of deceiving the doubters and manipulating them into remaining passively under their religion's control.
your problem seems to be, that you think religion controls people. First of all, religion is one thing, to be a xtian another one. Secondly, God does not " control " us. He has given us free will, so we might make the right choices. If God gives us a command, he does it not to destroy our joy of life, but to prevent us of hurting ourselfs. I know God as a loving father, which forgives us readily our sins, when we ask for forgiveness. But you have still to present good explanations for a naturalistic world view. So far you have not.
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20-03-2013, 04:21 AM
RE: Please present explanations which make philosophical naturalism plausible
(20-03-2013 03:59 AM)Godexists Wrote:  ...
If God gives us a command, he does it not to destroy our joy of life,
...

Tell that to Jephthah.

Drinking Beverage

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