Please provide a Geocentric diagram
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24-01-2013, 03:59 AM
RE: Please provide a Geocentric diagram
Yes, Heinlein is one of my favorite authors. Job does get a bit slow in the middle, but not too badly. Alec manages to stay likable the entire way through the book, despite his hardcore fundamentalist tendencies, because he is genuinely a good man at heart and has only the best interests of everyone in mind. Margrethe comes across a bit flat on a second read, more a foil for Alec's religiosity and occasional foot-in-mouth disease than a real well-rounded character, but she is very loving and genuine at the start.


Another good Heinlein one about religion is If This Goes On--, which is about a revolt in a future dystopic theocratic America, following a young man, religiously brainwashed, not too bright, who follows the path to apostasy and fights against the Prophet he once worshiped and served. Covers a lot of very good and important theological and philosophical points, and is a very good deconversion story in general.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
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24-01-2013, 04:12 AM
RE: Please provide a Geocentric diagram
Well, that derailed quickly.


Not that I expected any body to actually take up the challenge; after all, they cannot bullshit their way though something that requires a detailed explanation.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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24-01-2013, 11:20 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2013 11:29 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Please provide a Geocentric diagram
(24-01-2013 04:12 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Not that I expected any body to actually take up the challenge; after all, they cannot bullshit their way though something that requires a detailed explanation.


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25-01-2013, 03:01 PM
RE: Please provide a Geocentric diagram
[Image: geocentrist.jpg]

This is a basic model. There are some added complexities that don't show up with this scale so here we go.

The sun/moon heliosphere has a seasonal oscillation. This accounts for both the seasons as we experience them on earth and (in conjunction with the earth's shadow) the phases of the moon.

The mercury/venus sphere is actually two very closely associated spheres, both are affected by their proximity to the sun heliosphere and its' oscillation. Whether they are bonded by some physical linkage like hydrogen bonding or simply gravitational resonance is as yet unclear.

The heliosphere containing ceres and the asteroid belt shows clear damage from the Noachian flood, and according to the ancients may even have been another whole celestial body before the cataclysm that shook up the firmament.

Moving outward, Jupiter's heliosphere has another, fractionally smaller sphere associated to it (maybe hydrogen bonding again?) containing the Jovian moons. The relatively complex interactions here cause their apparent positions to change over time. The trojan asteroids are merely debris from the Noachian flood on the inner surface of the jovian heliosphere.

Likewise Saturn and the Saturnian moon system, with their two spheres. Saturn's rings are a transient formation and a part of the planet. If you want to lay their "orbit" about saturn as some silly attempt to prove heliocentrism I could just as easily use earth's atmosphere as "proof" of geocentrism. Is our atmosphere in an independant orbit about the sun?

Kuiper belt, more icy debris left over from the flood.

Then finally the stellar heliosphere or firmament. This contains all the constellations of stars that we can see in the night sky. They don't change over time and they move in perfect formation every night.

Try looking beyond this and you can see the opacity of it all.

Overall this model is a lot less tidy than it used to be before the flood. According to Genesis the firmament was torn open to allow the waters of The Flood to rain down upon the earth. This cataclysm explains a myriad of things, from the virtually upended axial tilt of uranus to all of those silly comets and bits of ice and dust and general detritus in the inner solar system, which occasionally rain down on the earth as meteor showers.

It even explains why Venus' rotation is so slow and it has an erratic and apparently backwards orbit about us, since it's likely Venus or an associated part of its heliosphere would have been in the path of a torrent of water.

As to why planets appear to follow the sun's oscillation in its orbit about the earth, that much is either due to the gravitational resonance of its motion or some sort of radiative bonding.

Hope that clears a few things up Smile

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25-01-2013, 03:19 PM (This post was last modified: 29-01-2013 11:28 PM by Free Thought.)
RE: Please provide a Geocentric diagram
I'm not physicist, but I am fairy damn certain, Earth does not have sufficient mass to hold things far greater than itself, like the Sun, in orbit.

[edited for late-caught coherence]

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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25-01-2013, 03:22 PM
RE: Please provide a Geocentric diagram
(25-01-2013 03:19 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I'm not physicist, but I am fairy damn certain, does not have sufficient mass to hold things far greater than itself, like the Sun, in orbit.
Agreed.

Conclusion: the mass of the sun is not nearly as much as heliocentrists claim it to be.

Check out my YouTube channel for more videos and information Smile

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25-01-2013, 03:51 PM
RE: Please provide a Geocentric diagram
(25-01-2013 03:19 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I'm not physicist, but I am fairy damn certain, does not have sufficient mass to hold things far greater than itself, like the Sun, in orbit.
Clearly the sun is not far larger than the earth. In fact, when I hold up my thumb and compare, I'm fairly sure the sun is not even larger than my thumb.

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25-01-2013, 03:53 PM (This post was last modified: 25-01-2013 03:59 PM by Aseptic Skeptic.)
RE: Please provide a Geocentric diagram
(25-01-2013 03:01 PM)AtheismExposed Wrote:  Hope that clears a few things up Smile
You, sir, have become my favorite troll ever. Did you find that diagram somewhere or did you make it yourself? If it's yours, bravo! Awesomely done. I've never wanted to troll strangers on a forum, but if I ever decide to give it a go, I only hope I can live up to the standards you've set here today.

Do you give lessons?

One thing though, you should have gone with the Earth's moon here. Our atmosphere doesn't orbit the earth, either, so it isn't proof or counterevidence against either model of the solar system. I'll fix it:

(25-01-2013 03:01 PM)AtheismExposed Wrote:  If you want to lay their "orbit" about Saturn as some silly attempt to prove heliocentrism I could just as easily use earth's atmosphere moon as "proof" of geocentrism. Is our atmosphere moon in an independent orbit about the sun?

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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25-01-2013, 04:06 PM
RE: Please provide a Geocentric diagram
(25-01-2013 03:01 PM)AtheismExposed Wrote:  [Image: geocentrist.jpg]

This is a basic model. There are some added complexities that don't show up with this scale so here we go.

The sun/moon heliosphere has a seasonal oscillation. This accounts for both the seasons as we experience them on earth and (in conjunction with the earth's shadow) the phases of the moon.

The mercury/venus sphere is actually two very closely associated spheres, both are affected by their proximity to the sun heliosphere and its' oscillation. Whether they are bonded by some physical linkage like hydrogen bonding or simply gravitational resonance is as yet unclear.

The heliosphere containing ceres and the asteroid belt shows clear damage from the Noachian flood, and according to the ancients may even have been another whole celestial body before the cataclysm that shook up the firmament.

Moving outward, Jupiter's heliosphere has another, fractionally smaller sphere associated to it (maybe hydrogen bonding again?) containing the Jovian moons. The relatively complex interactions here cause their apparent positions to change over time. The trojan asteroids are merely debris from the Noachian flood on the inner surface of the jovian heliosphere.

Likewise Saturn and the Saturnian moon system, with their two spheres. Saturn's rings are a transient formation and a part of the planet. If you want to lay their "orbit" about saturn as some silly attempt to prove heliocentrism I could just as easily use earth's atmosphere as "proof" of geocentrism. Is our atmosphere in an independant orbit about the sun?

Kuiper belt, more icy debris left over from the flood.

Then finally the stellar heliosphere or firmament. This contains all the constellations of stars that we can see in the night sky. They don't change over time and they move in perfect formation every night.

Try looking beyond this and you can see the opacity of it all.

Overall this model is a lot less tidy than it used to be before the flood. According to Genesis the firmament was torn open to allow the waters of The Flood to rain down upon the earth. This cataclysm explains a myriad of things, from the virtually upended axial tilt of uranus to all of those silly comets and bits of ice and dust and general detritus in the inner solar system, which occasionally rain down on the earth as meteor showers.

It even explains why Venus' rotation is so slow and it has an erratic and apparently backwards orbit about us, since it's likely Venus or an associated part of its heliosphere would have been in the path of a torrent of water.

As to why planets appear to follow the sun's oscillation in its orbit about the earth, that much is either due to the gravitational resonance of its motion or some sort of radiative bonding.

Hope that clears a few things up Smile


Things that are inexplicable with that diagram:
  • Seasons
  • Phases of the moon
  • Solar eclipses
  • Lunar eclipse
  • Motion of Mercury
  • Motion of Venus
  • Retrograde motion of Mars
  • Retrograde motion of Jupiter
  • Retrograde motion of Saturn
  • Retrograde motion of Uranus
  • Retrograde motion of Neptune
and many, many more.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-01-2013, 04:11 PM
RE: Please provide a Geocentric diagram
(25-01-2013 03:22 PM)AtheismExposed Wrote:  
(25-01-2013 03:19 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I'm not physicist, but I am fairy damn certain, does not have sufficient mass to hold things far greater than itself, like the Sun, in orbit.
Agreed.

Conclusion: the mass of the sun is not nearly as much as heliocentrists claim it to be.


In spite of the fact that we can calculate the suns mass. And by 'we' I do mean you, I or anybody else with the formula, can calculate it's mass, and we can use the same method for calculating Earth's mass, or Mars', Saturn etc etc etc.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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