Pluto's atmosphere
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20-07-2015, 11:39 PM
RE: Pluto's atmosphere
(20-07-2015 09:21 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I'm about the furthest thing away from being an astrophysics but I don't understand why a planet wouldn't have some kind of atmosphere.

Can one of you science geeks out there explain how a planet could have zero atmosphere. What's the definition of an atmosphere.

Curious but artsy-fartsy minds want to learn. Smartass

Thanks.

In artsy-artsy terms, the atmosphere is the planet's aura. Sometimes this aura is pungent like body odour around a sweaty dancer so you can't get close without dying and sometimes it's sweet, fragrant and wholesome.

An aura-less planet is like a theist with no friends.

Wink

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20-07-2015, 11:41 PM
RE: Pluto's atmosphere
(20-07-2015 08:58 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
Quote:New Horizons has discovered a region of cold, dense ionized gas tens of thousands of miles beyond Pluto -- the planet’s atmosphere being stripped away by the solar wind and lost to space. Beginning an hour and half after closest approach, the Solar Wind Around Pluto (SWAP) instrument observed a cavity in the solar wind -- the outflow of electrically charged particles from the Sun -- between 48,000 miles (77,000 km) and 68,000 miles (109,000 km) downstream of Pluto. SWAP data revealed this cavity to be populated with nitrogen ions forming a “plasma tail” of undetermined structure and length extending behind the planet.
http://www.nasa.gov/nh/pluto-wags-its-tail

If Pluto is billions of years old shouldn't its atmosphere have all been lost a long time ago? The fact that it still has an atmosphere supports the belief that is was created only a few thousand years ago.

There's no estimate of rate of stuff being blown off in the article you linked. Even if the atmosphere is not being replenished it could take long to be stripped away that far from the Sun, certainly far longer than 6K years.

What the fuck anyway??? You dumbasses read interesting science articles purely to see if you can find a gap to shove God into? You jokers really are desperate. Not to mention treating your God rather disrespectfully.

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21-07-2015, 09:31 AM
RE: Pluto's atmosphere
(20-07-2015 10:02 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Addendum: You'll note that the size of the atmosphere of a planet has a lot to do with its gravity level. Jupiter has the most mass and the most atmosphere (since most of the planet is indeed gas...just a LOT of it, enough to make that much gravity).

Venus, which is roughly (82% of) our planetary mass, has roughly our level of atmosphere, but is trapped in a runaway greenhouse effect that makes the conditions there very different! (Venus' atmosphere is much denser than ours, but that has to do with its composition being mostly CO2.)

Interestingly, Mars (at 1/3 our mass) seems to be right at the limit, retaining an atmosphere only 1% of ours despite a similar spin rate... the centrifugal effect of a planet's rotation is one of the main reasons gas gets enough "velocity" to escape.

So Rocket, (may I call you Rocket Tongue) how can a planet not have enough gravity to trap atmosphere? There must be several factors involved. Also, I would think scientists could get a general idea of the atmosphere on the planets in our solar system from our instruments here on earth or is Pluto just too far away to get those details.

Thanks!

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He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
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Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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21-07-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: Pluto's atmosphere
(21-07-2015 09:31 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 10:02 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Addendum: You'll note that the size of the atmosphere of a planet has a lot to do with its gravity level. Jupiter has the most mass and the most atmosphere (since most of the planet is indeed gas...just a LOT of it, enough to make that much gravity).

Venus, which is roughly (82% of) our planetary mass, has roughly our level of atmosphere, but is trapped in a runaway greenhouse effect that makes the conditions there very different! (Venus' atmosphere is much denser than ours, but that has to do with its composition being mostly CO2.)

Interestingly, Mars (at 1/3 our mass) seems to be right at the limit, retaining an atmosphere only 1% of ours despite a similar spin rate... the centrifugal effect of a planet's rotation is one of the main reasons gas gets enough "velocity" to escape.

So Rocket, (may I call you Rocket Tongue) how can a planet not have enough gravity to trap atmosphere? There must be several factors involved. Also, I would think scientists could get a general idea of the atmosphere on the planets in our solar system from our instruments here on earth or is Pluto just too far away to get those details.

Thanks!

Pluto is too far away for Earth-based (or Earth-orbit based) instrument to get enough data to make any reliable determination.

The atoms and molecules that make up an atmosphere are gases. Those are very energetic (otherwise they wouldn't constitute a gas) and can escape the gravity of the planet. The lower the gravity, the more escape.

Our moon is essentially geologically inert and has low gravity. Whatever atmosphere it may have had escaped long ago and it is not being replenished; hence there is no atmosphere

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21-07-2015, 09:51 AM
RE: Pluto's atmosphere
(21-07-2015 09:31 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  So Rocket, (may I call you Rocket Tongue) how can a planet not have enough gravity to trap atmosphere? There must be several factors involved. Also, I would think scientists could get a general idea of the atmosphere on the planets in our solar system from our instruments here on earth or is Pluto just too far away to get those details.

Thanks!

Rocket does seem to be the standard appellation, though now that I think about it, it makes me sound like a (female?) porn star. I seem to recall a female pornstar named Rocket in a movie, once, though I can't recall which film it was.

Pluto is both far away and small. But yes, we get some idea from instruments. All gases "vibrate" at frequencies that are detectable-- that's how we know the composition of the sun and nebulae, as well.

There are other factors, like how heavy the gas is in the first place (hydrogen flies away easiest, CO2 is very hard to sling off), how fast the planet is spinning (centrifugal force), amount of solar heating and solar wind "pressure", and the gravity field it must escape.

How fast the atmosphere is being replenished also varies by numerous factors; in the case of a big ice-and-rock ball like Pluto, where the sun's heat isn't much of an issue, it's a pretty slow process. The amazing thing, from what I've read, is that there's so much atmosphere, given the small gravity and seeming lack of sun pressure to cause outgassing to refill what spins off, etc. That's why the Creationist jumped on the idea of "Aha! That makes it young!"

It does no such thing.

It'll be a year before we have a clear enough picture to make a good model of how Pluto operates. Coming up at the end of July, they'll set the probe to spinning, which will increase the data transmission rate from 1kbps to 1.9kbps (this is roughly the speed of the IMSAI 212A phone-receiver modem seen in the movie War Games, at 1.2 kbps baud).

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21-07-2015, 02:26 PM
RE: Pluto's atmosphere
(21-07-2015 09:51 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 09:31 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  So Rocket, (may I call you Rocket Tongue) how can a planet not have enough gravity to trap atmosphere? There must be several factors involved. Also, I would think scientists could get a general idea of the atmosphere on the planets in our solar system from our instruments here on earth or is Pluto just too far away to get those details.

Thanks!

Rocket does seem to be the standard appellation, though now that I think about it, it makes me sound like a (female?) porn star. I seem to recall a female pornstar named Rocket in a movie, once, though I can't recall which film it was.

Pluto is both far away and small. But yes, we get some idea from instruments. All gases "vibrate" at frequencies that are detectable-- that's how we know the composition of the sun and nebulae, as well.

There are other factors, like how heavy the gas is in the first place (hydrogen flies away easiest, CO2 is very hard to sling off), how fast the planet is spinning (centrifugal force), amount of solar heating and solar wind "pressure", and the gravity field it must escape.

How fast the atmosphere is being replenished also varies by numerous factors; in the case of a big ice-and-rock ball like Pluto, where the sun's heat isn't much of an issue, it's a pretty slow process. The amazing thing, from what I've read, is that there's so much atmosphere, given the small gravity and seeming lack of sun pressure to cause outgassing to refill what spins off, etc. That's why the Creationist jumped on the idea of "Aha! That makes it young!"

It does no such thing.

It'll be a year before we have a clear enough picture to make a good model of how Pluto operates. Coming up at the end of July, they'll set the probe to spinning, which will increase the data transmission rate from 1kbps to 1.9kbps (this is roughly the speed of the IMSAI 212A phone-receiver modem seen in the movie War Games, at 1.2 kbps baud).

Thanks Rocket, Chas and DLJ. It's always fun to learn new things.

I always assume there's a logical explanation for everything.




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He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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31-07-2015, 09:35 PM (This post was last modified: 31-07-2015 09:39 PM by Lienda Bella.)
RE: Pluto's atmosphere
You could see the Disney Pluto on Pluto, but what I see in that spot is a dove with a black line behind it. Where could I have seen that before? Hmmm.

Consider
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31-07-2015, 10:01 PM
RE: Pluto's atmosphere
(20-07-2015 11:39 PM)DLJ Wrote:  In **artsy-artsy terms, the atmosphere is the planet's aura. Sometimes this aura is pungent like body odour around a sweaty dancer so you can't get close without dying and sometimes it's sweet, fragrant and wholesome.

An aura-less planet is like a theist with no friends.

Wink

** artsy FARTSY Smartass

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-08-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: Pluto's atmosphere
(31-07-2015 10:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-07-2015 11:39 PM)DLJ Wrote:  In **artsy-artsy terms, the atmosphere is the planet's aura. Sometimes this aura is pungent like body odour around a sweaty dancer so you can't get close without dying and sometimes it's sweet, fragrant and wholesome.

An aura-less planet is like a theist with no friends.

Wink

** artsy FARTSY Smartass

Oooh!

Gloves off from now on.

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01-08-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: Pluto's atmosphere
(20-07-2015 08:58 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
Quote:New Horizons has discovered a region of cold, dense ionized gas tens of thousands of miles beyond Pluto -- the planet’s atmosphere being stripped away by the solar wind and lost to space. Beginning an hour and half after closest approach, the Solar Wind Around Pluto (SWAP) instrument observed a cavity in the solar wind -- the outflow of electrically charged particles from the Sun -- between 48,000 miles (77,000 km) and 68,000 miles (109,000 km) downstream of Pluto. SWAP data revealed this cavity to be populated with nitrogen ions forming a “plasma tail” of undetermined structure and length extending behind the planet.
http://www.nasa.gov/nh/pluto-wags-its-tail

If Pluto is billions of years old shouldn't its atmosphere have all been lost a long time ago? The fact that it still has an atmosphere supports the belief that is was created only a few thousand years ago.

One of the arguments in support of funding the New Horizon's Mission was we needed to do this mission now if we were going to see the atmosphere. The reason being is Pluto's orbit is highly elliptical and right now it is moving away from the sun. It is possible, or at least it was believed to be possible at the conception of the mission that Pluto's atmosphere would freeze out as it moved away from the sun. That being the case, we would have to wait hundreds of years before Pluto's atmosphere thawed when it got closer to the sun again. With New Horizon's, NASA felt it was a really now or never for the mission.
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