Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
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28-12-2015, 04:40 PM
RE: Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
(28-12-2015 04:13 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Wait wait wait, back the train up a bit because I've obviously not read a thread and missed something here.

Who the fuck in their right mind believes that it's a good idea to tax people who no longer live in said country, citizens or not? If you don't live in a country you shouldn't pay taxes to that country. Simple as that.

Continuing to tax people after they've moved to another country is the most retarded shit I've ever herd for a long time.
How is that even remotely legally possible?

Silly silly boy. Derfish lives in the Dominican Republic and receives US Social Security from the fund he payed into his working life. If he decided not to pay US taxes he would no longer get the benefit he earned.

#sigh
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28-12-2015, 05:02 PM
RE: Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
(28-12-2015 04:13 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Wait wait wait, back the train up a bit because I've obviously not read a thread and missed something here.

Who the fuck in their right mind believes that it's a good idea to tax people who no longer live in said country, citizens or not? If you don't live in a country you shouldn't pay taxes to that country. Simple as that.

Continuing to tax people after they've moved to another country is the most retarded shit I've ever herd for a long time.
How is that even remotely legally possible?

I would think you mean if someone denounced their citizenship and moved over seas right?

US citizens have an obligation to pay some taxes even while living full time overseas, can’t expect to go running into the US Embassy and have those Marines protect my sorry ass if I haven’t been paying my dues.

We moved overseas from 1998-2000 and as ex-pats (An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, as an immigrant, in a country other than that of their citizenship. The word comes from the Latin terms ex (“out of”) and patria (“country, fatherland”).

During this time my wife was employed by a US company, they deducted all taxes from her paycheck as if we were still living in the US and they then paid the host country their due. We were NOT exempt from US taxes nor do I think we should have been. She was still paying her Social Security and Federal taxes.

Here is how US law works:

How does living abroad mitigate your US tax?

There are basically two methods by which you can reduce your US tax by a substantial amount. These are the "Foreign Earned Income Exclusion"and the "Foreign Tax Credit." However, neither of these methods excuses you from filing if your income was above the filing threshold.

The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE, using IRS Form 2555) allows you to exclude a certain amount of your EARNED income from US tax. For tax year 2014 this exclusion was $99,200. What this means is that if, for example, you earned $150,000 in 2014, you can subtract $99,200 from that leaving $50,800 as taxable by the US. But beware: this $50,800 is taxable at tax rates applying to $150,000 (the so-called "stacking rule"). The exclusion only applies to earned income. Other income, such as pensions, interest, dividends, capital gains, etc., cannot be excluded with the FEIE. You are liable for full US tax on this type of income.

Here's a simple example. Suppose you live in France and you earned the equivalent of $150,000 (about EURO 117,600) from your French employer. You are married filing jointly, have two children and you take the standard deduction.

The US tax on this income is calculated as follows:

US tax on $150,000 : $24,138

Subtract US tax on $99,200 (the exclusion): $9,438

Net US tax payable: $14,700

While this is only an approximate calculation, it gives you an idea of how the system works.

https://americansabroad.org/issues/taxat...d-dummies/

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29-12-2015, 10:50 AM
RE: Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
(28-12-2015 03:58 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Where did he even move to?

His mother's basement in Southern California.

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29-12-2015, 12:04 PM
RE: Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
(28-12-2015 02:57 PM)frankksj Wrote:  [...] But, every time I bring this up, most on this board take the position of the US democrats, that one should not be able to just say goodbye to his country when it no longer serves his needs, but has a duty that lasts for life. And all agree that the obligation does not extend to the state & local governments that provide education, roads, etc., nor to the social secure & medicare programs, but the obligation is to fund the US general budget, most of which is for war. Thus both parties are war parties to me. [...]

I'm repeatedly perplexed by the sheer number of personal factoids you post on these forums. You've obviously not researched US government spending for 2015:

[Image: tax_day_chart_2.png]

I'd hardly call 15% "most" of the US budget LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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29-12-2015, 05:35 PM
RE: Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
(28-12-2015 04:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-12-2015 04:13 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Wait wait wait, back the train up a bit because I've obviously not read a thread and missed something here.

Who the fuck in their right mind believes that it's a good idea to tax people who no longer live in said country, citizens or not? If you don't live in a country you shouldn't pay taxes to that country. Simple as that.

Continuing to tax people after they've moved to another country is the most retarded shit I've ever herd for a long time.
How is that even remotely legally possible?

Only the U.S. and only citizens making more that $100,000.

The purpose of the law was to plug a gap that allowed wealth transfer and tax avoidance. People were gaming the system by declaring residency abroad for the sole purpose of tax avoidance.

Income generated in the country is a different matter.
If you make your money in the US and live in the UK I do think you should be taxed by both (and I thought that's how all countries operate anyway?). I thought we were talking about someone with US citizenship who moves to the UK to take up a job in the UK still be taxed by the US. (which we are apparently and which is bullshit).

Quote:I would think you mean if someone denounced their citizenship and moved over seas right?

No, I mean anyone who moves overseas to work overseas.
The only time you should be taxed (for income tax anyway) is from the country you earn that money in and the country you live in (and if they're the same country than obviously only taxed once).

Quote:US citizens have an obligation to pay some taxes even while living full time overseas

Horse shit no they don't. They moved overseas... they no longer live in the US they don't 'owe' the US shit. (unless they literally do owe the US something such as debt).

Quote:can’t expect to go running into the US Embassy and have those Marines protect my sorry ass if I haven’t been paying my dues.

Yes you can.
That example is a very small minority situation. Most people that this effects would have moved to Europe or Australia/NZ or somewhere not even remotely dangerous.

You don't have to pay for the US one if you live and work in UK for example but you're still paying for the UK one in the US by your UK taxes.

Embassies are part of a government expense like hiring the janitor that cleans the white house halls at 3am. Their protection is the perk of having citizenship, you don't need to pay for it.
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29-12-2015, 10:59 PM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2015 11:04 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
(29-12-2015 05:35 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:US citizens have an obligation to pay some taxes even while living full time overseas
Horse shit no they don't. They moved overseas... they no longer live in the US they don't 'owe' the US shit. (unless they literally do owe the US something such as debt).


If they're still a citizen, and thus allowed to vote in elections (yes, citizens abroad can vote in US presidential elections, something US citizens born and raised in Puerto Rico cannot do); then they do still have an obligation. Plus, US citizens abroad are still entitled to their Social Security as well.


(29-12-2015 05:35 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:can’t expect to go running into the US Embassy and have those Marines protect my sorry ass if I haven’t been paying my dues.
Yes you can.
That example is a very small minority situation. Most people that this effects would have moved to Europe or Australia/NZ or somewhere not even remotely dangerous.

You don't have to pay for the US one if you live and work in UK for example but you're still paying for the UK one in the US by your UK taxes.

Embassies are part of a government expense like hiring the janitor that cleans the white house halls at 3am. Their protection is the perk of having citizenship, you don't need to pay for it.


There is no free lunch. US citizens pay taxes that pay for the US government, embassies included. Embassy workers are not pro bono.

Even that being said, you're only taxed on income over $100,000; and once again, if only every US citizen was fortunate enough to be burdened with the inconvenience of being taxed on a $100,000 yearly income.

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29-12-2015, 11:29 PM
RE: Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
Reminds of someone I used to know, they lived in Cuba in the 40s. They talked smack about the US government too.

But less than 20 years later when they shit hit the fan they were the first ones digging out their US documentation to get the fuck out.

I'm sure they're not the only ones either.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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30-12-2015, 01:36 AM
RE: Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
I had a free lunch today. Smile

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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30-12-2015, 01:56 AM
RE: Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
(30-12-2015 01:36 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I had a free lunch today. Smile

[Image: VMgTw.jpg]

You might not have paid for that lunch at that moment yourself, but someone else somewhere else certainly did.

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30-12-2015, 02:13 AM
RE: Pointless to debate the best gov't if we can't even agree what gov't is
(30-12-2015 01:56 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You might not have paid for that lunch at that moment yourself, but someone else somewhere else certainly did.

Let's not nit pick. People got paid to make it, and grow ingredients etc. And I've been paying taxes since 1972.... The end is listless, as they say. Smile

Plus it was just hospital food. But the juice was nice. Big Grin

And my huge bowl of Vietnamese soup was just $12.00.

One must be careful on a pension. Smile

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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